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-   -   Why has this game been released? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=809594)

xFortune 06-03-2011 01:00 AM

Why has this game been released?
 
Before I start:
This is not rage, please don't read it in an angry tone. I'm looking for intelligent and honest answers, and constructive feedback in the hopes that Riot will see this.
I am not bashing on League, it can be an amazing game when everything runs smoothly, easily the most fun I've ever had gaming with friends.


I'm no foreigner to new, pre-release, or buggy software and games (running Linux Mint and trying out Arch, using several experimental and/or beta programs, as well as participating in alpha/beta testing several games, including Starcraft 2, Terraria, Rise of Immortals, Medal of Honor, Guild Wars, as well as test servers on TF2, Dark Age of Camelot, etc.). When I enter trials or use new/pre-release software + patches, I expect bugs, glitches, and I expect to spend a while troubleshooting or configuring things to get them to work correctly. Come time for the software's release, most of those bugs have been worked out, and it's generally more stable and more polished.

Now I've been playing League since Feb '10, about 4 months after the game's release. I have a good amount of experience with it, I'm about 910:760 W:L which is above the average I've seen (which is usually close to 1:1), so I don't think I'm just a case of "lol baddie blaming the game for being bad".

Getting to the point:

If I was behind League of Legends, I would not have released it in it's current state, let alone over a year and a half ago. League, to me, feels like a game in its early beta stages.

I have never used a program or played a game as buggy, glitchy, inconsistent, and full of errors or overlooked discrepancies as League of Legends. When I first started, I attributed many of the bugs to myself not being used to the engine and its tricks. As I played and got better, those same bugs kept reoccurring and I realized that it was the game, not just me. I figured that the game and company were pretty new, they'll probably fix it and it'll improve a lot in the coming months. I was wrong. One year later, the game is no better.

Here's a short (compared to what it could be) list of things that make this game feel unfinished, in my opinion:

1a) Projectile hitboxes
The hitbox issue is massive, and is the second top reason I'm writing this (first is boredom). They are so inconsistent and buggy it makes laggy TF2 feel like Q3A. Projectiles can hit you behind minions, hit the minion behind you, hit you when you're 3 feet to the side, go directly through you without doing anything, etc. And it's completely random, there's no rhyme or reason to it. Some examples of what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_UQcbAc-Og
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkZOvrbs9Xk

1b) Other "hitboxes"
Not sure if League uses hitboxes for non-projectile skills or has a different way of determining hits/misses, but figured I should separate the two just in case. Skills such as Malzahar's Call of the Void, Annie's Incinerate, and even autolock/targeted skills and autoattacks.

Examples: the range and radius on most any AoE spell can be anywhere between 15% less and 30% more than what's indicated (estimation, obviously).

Autoattack range is very inconsistent. I've been able to hit people from what seems like 20%+ farther than usual, or not been able to attack them when they seem quite deep inside of my attack range.

Some of these may be caused by how the view warps as you move the camera (the camera angle isn't always the same or is different/warps towards the sides of the screen, don't know which), but not all.

2) Bushes
Bushes are not a single large object, but many small objects. There are gaps in these "objects", and if you stand in one of those gaps, you become visible, despite your character standing amidst the brush. I've placed wards in the middle of a side lane bush, and they've landed in these "dead zones", and don't give vision of the bush. I would record some footage of these, but LoL is down right now (surprise).

3) Doesn't like quick inputs
This could be attributed to user error, but myself and every one of my friends agree that this game does not agree with quick inputs. It will just plain not cast a spell, cast it after a delay, etc. if you try to do things too quickly. My keyboard has NKRO, so accidental ghosting is not an issue, and at least two of my friends are platinum ranked SC2 players with good APM, so I don't think it is sloppy playing. It very well could be, though.

4) Buggy terrain
I'm sure everyone is aware of these bugs. Walking around and you'll just phase through a wall, or Poppy will slam you and you/her/both of you will go through it. I guess this will include Flash not going over walls sometimes, just putting you a few feet away on the same side. I haven't seen as much phasing as of late, so it has improved, but it is still an issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32-AMIAgzF4

5) Inconsistent aggro (towers and minions)
Towers have switched to or from champions for no apparent reason. The disengagement range for towers is also sometimes farther than their initial targeting range. Minions will sometimes completely ignore you, other times aggro you and will not stop attacking you, despite there being plenty of friendly minions there. I've been chased from the middle of the lane, to my tower, past my friendly minions before (and no I did not attack an enemy champion).

6) Silly discrepancies and bugs with skills
Things like Udyr's Tiger Stance DoT not breaking Bansee's Veil, but his Phoenix Stance does, Vayne's Tumble attack not proccing Banshee's Veil, but Nasus' Siphon Strike will.

Poppy and Vayne's knockbacks. They will knock back an incredible range sometimes, but not others. They can stun people on nothing (literally, no walls, minions, anything), or they can hit them into a wall and not stun.

There are so many of these, I'm not going to list any more, but I'm sure everyone knows what I'm talking about.

7) Downtime/server slowdowns
The game goes down for maintenance when they patch, and that's completely understandable and acceptable. But it seems like every other patch the game goes down because of other issues. Then you have PvP.net going down every couple of days. Then even when the servers are up, server lag spikes (everyone in the match notices/feels it) aren't uncommon.

8) Reconnecting problems
When you DC and reconnect to a game, there is a high chance of it being messed up when you get back. Things like ghost minions and towers (minions and towers showing they're there when they're actually dead/destroyed), not being able to attack towers, invisible champions (my friend reconnected and he couldn't see the enemy Twisted Fate for example), items showing/reading as different items, etc.

9) Other errors/bugs/crashes/things not being the way they should
Most of these are probably not common errors or crashes, just relevant anecdotes

A friend of mine drops to <10FPS any time a new champion is on screen for the first few days after their release.

Another friend is struggling with constant Bugsplat errors

If my computer has been in sleep mode, I have to restart before playing, otherwise my FPS fluctuates up and down by 10% and causes movement glitchyness/choppiness, and all of my skills show as being off cooldown 10% faster than they actually are. A friend has a similar problem with cooldowns, but can't find a fix.

The "play again" button is bugged, and will bring me to an empty lobby that says everyone has been invited, but they haven't and the buttons don't do anything, or it will bring me to the practice game browser.

Clicks will persist through menus and hit things behind them. Put your store over your skill level up button, and if you click "Buy" and your mouse happens to be over where the level up button is, you will level up a skill (not sure if this has been fixed, I stopped clicking on the buy button for this exact reason).

Popups (such as from Skype) will not show up on screen, but if you click where they do pop up (on the minimap), it will minimize your game. I know this isn't a Skype issue because it doesn't do this with any other games that I play (HoN, TF2, Starcraft 2, Brink, Fable III, Left 4 Dead/2, Company of Heroes).

Knockup bugs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SLfzdHatms
Nuff said. This is also a good example of crappy hitboxes, watch Ashe's arrow hit Malphite at the beginning.


I'm going to stop there. I could probably double the lists length, but I'm sure my point has been made.

So, the question in the title stands.
Why has this game been released?
Why is it not in beta testing still?
Was it rushed to compete with HoN? If so, why has it been left in its current state instead of fixed over the past year?
What would be required to fix at least some of these? A new game engine? Or are there ways to improve the current engine/netcode?
Are these issues being looked at by the Riot dev team?
Obligatory: Where's Magma Chamber? :P

Competitive players who read this:
Why do you play League competitively, instead of a better polished game on a more consistent engine? League can be one of the most fun games ever, at times, but it is definitely one of the last games I would want to play competitively, because of the inconsistencies.

You, the average player:
Do you agree that at least some of the things I listed are problematic?
What has your experience been like with League of Legends, regarding bugs/errors/etc.?


Thanks for reading.
-Fortune

mojozhu 06-03-2011 01:03 AM

I think $$ is the answer. They know player will bare with it even if it got so many bug. And they are really successful and made alot of money out of this glitchy game.

I do believe firms are mostly money driven. Majority of income of this game comes from micro transaction, so putting resource in developing new champ and skin is more profit making than creating replay/map.

Since there is not much comparable competitor in the market atm. It is highly unlikely that Riot will put a bigger portion of resource in solving fundamental issue, like glitch, map, replay... etc. Since player will stay in the game regardless of the bugs and problem in the game.

It will probably gets better when dota 2 come out.

Cawk Deezil 06-03-2011 01:07 AM

gunna be a ton of tl;dr comments...sadly

Demonicous 06-03-2011 01:08 AM

Go program a better game with little $.... Go for it.... If its better then your argument is valid

Shosuko 06-03-2011 01:08 AM

Well - Surprisingly I agree with some of this... The bush bug where you can ward in the middle of a bush and not have bush visibility is crazy annoying... I've played 3 wards in the side lane bush before getting one that reveals :\

It is very frustrating to deal with bugs like that which SHOULD be easy to fix, and happen pretty often... I guess they aren't very commonly *****ed about because most ppl find out where they need to put their ward for it to work (or don't use wards at all <_<) and so it passes on unattended...


I wouldn't go so far as to say this game is "early beta" as it plays very much as a release game should. Most of the time the game world is consistent, and I'd estimate this "most" is about 95%... Really I don't have many complaints, but I'd think these bugs would at least be addressed as time passed... I mean the game has been out over a year... I'd think a simple thing like bush warding would have been smoothed over <_<


Some of the "bugs" you point out are actually latency and cannot be avoided by any online game, on any system, by any developer. These mostly deal with your hit box issues. These we simply have to live with, just like shooting ppl "through walls" in fps games... latency says you're not behind that wall yet, even though your system does <_< deal with it.

FoxAmidstStars 06-03-2011 01:08 AM

One; Long rage post is long.

Two: There are plenty of games that are buggier. Ever played CoD4? I shouldn't be able to shoot someone through a wall. Nor should I be able to knife someone and have it go through their head just to have them turn and knife me.

This game is large and there is a lot of room for error, you can't make a game with as much coding as this perfect. Every game has bugs and the room for error in this game is consistently larger than in other games. Despite the fact that this game is smaller, it has much more complex coding than many would be believe.

Despite it being on flat ground, you have to calculate the ground height and you have to set the abilities at the proper height otherwise you get glitches like Pantheon's ult circle not appearing(i had to deal with this for months) and others.

A game can not be perfect, and league of legends is no exception, and with the high room for bug and the fact that they fix them consistently and new ones pop up, it's common sense to realize that they work hard.

Don't try to blame Riot that a game has bugs, everything has bugs, even people, and you have no right to judge if a game is ready to be released or not.

Study facts more before you decide to make a rage post based on opinions. It may help you.

: I've never had an issue with "Quick cast." Abilities have always cast instantly for me unless they are channeled or if I am having lag, which is mostly contributed to from my computer, not the game.

: I've never had an issue reconnecting unless it is a widespread server issue.

: Popups show on my screen, maybe it's just you.

: Turrets have always seemed to aggro properly for me, maybe you're just having some severe lag issues.

: Players who play league competitively know they can thrive easily, unlike yourself. Take your rage somewhere else?

: You can not be seen in these gaps. Brush block everything on the other sides.

: Knock up bugs happen very rarely.

: I very rarely have issues.

Ookami1225 06-03-2011 01:10 AM

This is like asking why any game was released.
Is SC2 incomplete? It's been patched and fixed so many times. Maybe Blizzard should have a beta of the beta test. They use this game in tournaments for MONEY. And have to fix it after that. Is that fair? omg.

Private Riem 06-03-2011 01:10 AM

+1'd, seems like downvotes are coming.

xFortune 06-03-2011 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SurrealSilence (Hozzászólás 9558225)
One; Long rage post is long.

Two: There are plenty of games that are buggier. Ever played CoD4? I shouldn't be able to shoot someone through a wall. Nor should I be able to knife someone and have it go through their head just to have them turn and knife me.

This game is large and there is a lot of room for error, you can't make a game with as much coding as this perfect. Every game has bugs and the room for error in this game is consistently larger than in other games. Despite the fact that this game is smaller, it has much more complex coding than many would be believe.

Despite it being on flat ground, you have to calculate the ground height and you have to set the abilities at the proper height otherwise you get glitches like Pantheon's ult circle not appearing(i had to deal with this for months) and others.

A game can not be perfect, and league of legends is no exception, and with the high room for bug and the fact that they fix them consistently and new ones pop up, it's common sense to realize that they work hard.

Don't try to blame Riot that a game has bugs, everything has bugs, even people, and you have no right to judge if a game is ready to be released or not.

Study facts more before you decide to make a rage post based on opinions. It may help you.


No game is buggier, in my experience, even alpha and beta trials, which is the point of my post. It's not that the game has bugs, it's that it's buggier than games that haven't even been released yet.

Threads 06-03-2011 01:11 AM

I counter your wall of text with two words.



Why not?


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