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-   -   Importance of skill as it relates to team roles (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=797714)

Fawkqueue 05-30-2011 01:24 PM

Importance of skill as it relates to team roles
 
Hey guys,

So after watching the qualifiers this weekend and getting a clearer picture of just how fresh and in-experienced my pre-made team is, I grew curious about something. Of the various roles a good team will have (tank/initiator, support, ranged carry, jungler, cc/mage, etc) which will see a bigger benefit from having a skilled player vs a less skilled. Essentially, I'd like to optimize who is in which role to field the most efficient team I can. So help me fill in the blanks.

How do you guys rank, from 1-5 (1 being your most skilled player, 5 being your least) each of these roles?

A - Tank/Initiator
B - Jungler
C - Ranged Carry
D - Support
E - CC/Mage

Pyroxite 05-30-2011 01:41 PM

I think you should take player inclination into account. Some large percentage of LoL players finds playing a support role boring. So even if that person is "better" than some of his teammates, if you put him into a support role he's going to take more risks to try and liven it up.

What you ought to do is ask your teammates to come up with a list of their 4 favorite champs with their comments on how good they think they are with each one. Then construct a couple team makeups based on that, allowing for possible bans etc.

Fawkqueue 05-30-2011 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyroxite (Hozzászólás 9414146)
I think you should take player inclination into account. Some large percentage of LoL players finds playing a support role boring. So even if that person is "better" than some of his teammates, if you put him into a support role he's going to take more risks to try and liven it up.

What you ought to do is ask your teammates to come up with a list of their 4 favorite champs with their comments on how good they think they are with each one. Then construct a couple team makeups based on that, allowing for possible bans etc.

Some of that is taken into account, but the challenge as captain of a few people who are VERY fresh to level 30 is balancing their desired champs with what's actually ideal for our team. If I left it up to them entirely, I'd have three ranged carries and a Gragas, or a Master Yi and Trynamere on bottom lane. You can see how none of that would work at the highest levels (if it'd even work at low ELO).

Essentially, what I'm working with is two experienced and skilled players, one intermediate, and two that hit 30 in the current month. I'd like to identify how best to utilize them, then we can see about finding champions that they click with in each role. For instance, I wouldn't want to put our uber-noob as the range carry if that's the integral role for success, since he'd most likely fail no matter how much fun he has going 4/8/2 on Vayne or Caitlyn match after match. Likewise, if the support role is generally consider the least skill intensive, I wouldn't want our top player wasting his potential trying to support weak DPS. That's the reason I'm looking to get some advice on where to place everyone.

If I had to answer my own list, I'd say:

A - Tank/Initiator - 4
B - Jungler - 2
C - Ranged Carry - 1
D - Support - 5
E - CC/Mage - 3

Just curious how the rest of the community feels.

XPtboy 05-30-2011 02:46 PM

I'd say they all require a fair bit of skill, just different skills. Apart from support that is, as a support i feel like all you have to do is make sure to not make any stupid mistakes and be smart (which is in itself a skill)

Tanks need to have great map awareness and be smart but they must also know how to use their abilities correctly and when to back off

junglers need to be good at ganks, have good timing and sense of where everybody is on the map and when the right time to gank is

ranged carries need to be good at farming and ruining the opposing team whilst at the same time not getting focused themselves

Mages need to be good at unleashing their burst, getting out and getting back in when they are ready to burst again

support just needs to be more aware of how low their teammates are (I wouldnt know though since support is probably the one role which I really don't like to play)

Brochilles 05-30-2011 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XPtboy (Hozzászólás 9416220)
I'd say they all require a fair bit of skill, just different skills. Apart from support that is, as a support i feel like all you have to do is make sure to not make any stupid mistakes and be smart (which is in itself a skill)

Tanks need to have great map awareness and be smart but they must also know how to use their abilities correctly and when to back off

junglers need to be good at ganks, have good timing and sense of where everybody is on the map and when the right time to gank is

ranged carries need to be good at farming and ruining the opposing team whilst at the same time not getting focused themselves

Mages need to be good at unleashing their burst, getting out and getting back in when they are ready to burst again

support just needs to be more aware of how low their teammates are (I wouldnt know though since support is probably the one role which I really don't like to play)

This guy said it the best. I would certainly not say that one takes more skill then another, or one is more important then another. Some games your tank ends up carrying but getting a few lucky last hits in a team fight to get the kills and building faster then the rest of the team. Like if the tank just ran in to all 5 of them with just 2 with him, then the two needs to know to just back off and let him pay for his own mistake. And what it comes down to is who likes to play what more. Like another said if you have someone that thinks support is boring he wont have the same potential as someone who thinks it is fun. So what would be a better idea for you is to look at the different champs you know your friends like to play and look at some of the high elo champs being used and match them up. If your one friend likes being a range carry, maybe toss him a few Vayne guides floating around and some tips and eventually he will be going 20/2 after he learns how to play. Someone who is bad at tanking, but the person likes being a tank, isn't really that bad of a choice to let tank. Just play a **** load of normal games let him find out how to initiate good and when not to and eventually he will be good enough to tank ranked.

Also it is easier to rate champs for skill level then roles. A Vayne carry will be much harder to play then a Tryn carry. You are looking at a carry that uses Q to do most of their damage and have to know when to use their knockback to stun and help the team verses a guy that runs in, auto attacks, ults, and spins out with a triple kill. Or a tank that bandage tosses then ults and watch their whole team fall instead of a tank that may have to shadow step through a ledge to taunt someone lagging behind their group.

Tigersand 05-30-2011 08:00 PM

As a support player, I have to say that support isn't terribly difficult to play; but you have a very unique set of responsibilities that set you up to take leadership of your team and call the shots. Itemizing a support can be tricky in that you want to get the most out of the little gold you have so that you can buy billions of wards.

I would say that tank/initiator and jungler are about equally difficult to play. If you gank/initiate at the wrong time or spend too much time waiting for the right opportunity your team will fall behind. If you can itemize one tank you can itemize them all.

I'm a terrible carry. I think they need to have the most "skill" in the sense that they need to be able to balance creep scores (last hitting) with team fights and itemize the right mix of damage and survivability.

I find cc/mage a lot easier than carrying. It's all about going in and doing your job then getting out to wait for cooldowns. If you have a good tank/initiator your job will be cake. If not then your job will still be cake, you just might die.


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