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-   -   Pando Media Booster; Uncool. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=521081)

Not a Cobra 02-17-2011 12:19 AM

Pando Media Booster; Uncool.
 
NEWS!
TO ANYONE PLAYING THE PBE!!!
Installing the PBE will re-install Pando media Booster, make sure you uninstall it again if you wish to play this gamemode.



FORE-NOTE;
Since there are a lot of you TL;DRing:
UNINSTALLING Pando is fairly straightforward and doing so has NO NEGATIVE EFFECTS on game patching or performance, you can uninstall it safely and easily.
However, may I suggest at least reading the entire OP, and if possible, there is a lot of information in the thread.
Proof of everything in the OP can be found in other peoples posts, from Bandwidth usage, Pando running in the background, problems caused by pando and hundreds and hundreds of testimonials as to the benefits of uninstalling this program.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Original post----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure how many of you know, but when you download League of Legends, accompanying it, you get a little program called Pando media booster which for the sake of my fingers I'll refer to as "PMB" henceforth.

I'm lead to believe the following;
PMB runs in the background of your computer, and uploads various files, usually relevant to LoL to other players in a peer to peer fashion.
This means Riot does not need to pay for big servers as most of the files players download will be downloaded from other players, rather than from riot themselves.

There is a HUGE downside about this in countries like Australia, where we pay for our internet uploads, not just downloads.
As a result, thanks to PMB running constantly in the background, uploading stealthily without any real notice, many people can be capped, or pay a fortune in overuse fees without having any idea why.

I checked the download and terms of service...no mention of PMB.
Once the program was downloaded, I never ticked "yes I want this program to run"
In the task manager, it doesn't show up in processes or Applications, it's hidden under a generic name in services.

It's like...90% a virus;
It downloads when you don't know it's there, hides itself, starts running without being prompted or allowed, then uploads information constantly without your consent.

For australians this is a BIG problem.
For others....it's still pretty invasive.

------------------------------------------------------------EDITS AND ADDITIONS BELOW---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I give a very, very special thanks to everyone bumping this thread.
It's helping keep it in the public eye which means more people will see it and respond.
And it also means more chance of a Red Response.
Thank you very much, and I much appreciate your continued support.

There is a single mention of Pando during installation, however it never alerts the user before hand, never asks permission, never mentioned in the ToS, never tells you beforehand what it is, what it does or why it's there and continues running after installation.
However "surreal silence" believes this is more than enough notification from Riot.
He is of course a troll, if you see his posts, feel free to downvote them as many times as necessary, as he has been downvoting 90% of the posts in this thread.

To posters telling me it's in the Instillation
To have a link to Pando's ToS after I've agreed to install LoL isn't good enough.
What's worse is you can't view it until you've already started downloading LoL.
What's worse is that you still never get to actually click yes, it happens midway through your LoL installation, there is no separate installer, no separate popup.
If I sent you a game, you download it, midday through the download it starts formatting your computer and you get a little link to a "how to format your computer" guide.
You're not going to be happy are you?
same situation here, albeit less severe.


FINALLY A RED RESPONSE!
Quote:

Originally Posted by hohums (Hozzászólás 6402956)
PBM should not be uploading after the install or when you pause it during the download. If it is staying alive after the installer finishes*, then its a bug we will want to fix. It would be greatly appreciated if you could provide information on how to reproduce that.

The primary reason for Pando is to speed up the install. It uses both CDNs and peer to peer, it does not contain spyware. Note that most online games use peer to peer as part of their download strategy. Without the peer to peer downloading will be much slower. Also in some cases it will be more expensive to not use peer to peer because of increased loss due to increased distance the packets have to travel. Furthermore if your downloading from 2 locations on the same network much of that download can be shared... reducing the download amount (and download cost).

We don't currently have a way to turn off PBM during the install however its something we'll look into.

*I haven't been able verify any significant uploading after several days of testing myself over the past few weeks. The service is there for sure... it checks for PBM updates, however it uses less download then say your MSN chat client to do that.

So, there you have it. It exists.
However, please note fellow forumers;
No mention of it's continous uploads
No mention of why we have so little say in it's download and installation
No mention of why we can't opt not to have Pando installed.

Oi, Riot:
Come on, do this.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alopix (Hozzászólás 6351180)
You shouldn't have to deal with such things when installing software. That's the point. We shouldn't be expected to install what amounts to a bandwidth theft device. Pando might as well be going over to their victim's house and putting a splitter on their line to steal their cable. Pando does whatever Pando wants with no promise of security and no control by the user.

Riot, if you don't want to provide the bandwidth needed for uploading the installer, all you have to do is give us the .torrent file and seed it a few times. The community will seed it for you. Forever. For free. I guarantee it. And you can break off your ties with Pando. You really shouldn't associate with thieves.




SOME IMPORTANT INFORMATION:
Look! it's on the internet!
http://www.dasfox.com/blog/post/What...ndoexe%29.aspx

Also; Look up Akami Net Session, this is a program that has almost the exact same function as Pando Media Booster, note; while it does not come with LoL it comes with other games.
In fact, Akami Net Session is, in my eyes, even worse than Pando, it's been known to upload more than 15GB a day without consent.
however, For the purposes of this thread and since it is irrelevant to LoL, I'll let you look it up yourselves.

EDIT:

Some Posts from the thread providing information at a glance:
Quote:

Originally Posted by mindstream (Hozzászólás 6286256)
It can also make installing LoL nearly impossible if your firewall/router/antivirus takes offense to it.

It's the worst software that's not outright malware that I've ever seen in my ****ing life. I wasted like 4 hours reinstalling LoL today because it was so hard to get it to work. And then apparently this **** screws your bandwith up too? Go figure, I've been having trouble with upload/download speeds in general...maybe this piece of **** program was responsible. Thanks for this thread!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingPurpleGuy (Hozzászólás 6285320)
it does run in the background, even when league of legends isnt running

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greas3 (Hozzászólás 6285393)
It's fairly intrusive and underhanded. I play a lot at a pc cafe, and whenever a single update starts PBM runs on all the local computers and slows them down to about 20% (100 ping becomes 500 or greater). I guess it prioritizes the computers on the LAN in this case, but we have identified that process to be the one eating the bandwidth of the entire cafe.

Not only is this annoying, but it actually hurts these businesses. People go to PC cafe's for stable connections and consistency, when your game suddenly makes every other computer unusable people flip out and customers are lost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LLamaPie (Hozzászólás 6286105)
Yep, this is an issue but its the case for many programs. What you download and what you install is part of a package unfortunately. This kind of program is junk and ya I uninstalled, blocked, and registry nuked it into oblivion when I found out it was snuck on to my computer. P2P programs are so f'ing risky, anyone with a clever brain and a packet sniffer can F you up if you have fail security on your end. Riot, you need to at least prompt that this **** is being used.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boggart Sprite (Hozzászólás 6286211)
Wow, that's ****ing uncool Riot. @OP, thanks for letting us know. If you google that, the 2nd link that shows up is this: http://www.dasfox.com/blog/post/What...ndoexe%29.aspx

I uninstalled it; that's some shady **** Riot, shady **** indeed.

EDIT 2:
Removal of Pando media Booster
Go into performance, then Resource monitor, you'll see it under "network"

Also, you'll find it if you "show processes from all users" and it is one of the processes called "svchost" but there are many with that name.

Easiest way to remove is to find it under "add or remove programs" in your control pannel.
Once you've found it, uninstall it. It will not come back unless you redownload LoL.

EDIT 3:
Find this man's post (9th page) and Upvote it please, I could not have said it better myself;
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaspingTruth (Hozzászólás 6322523)
you people Just don't get it, do you?
There are two issues here.

1.
We NEVER AGREED to download Pando Media Booster. We agreed to download League of Legends. NOWHERE in the ToS does it say that 'Pando Media Booster' will be downloaded and/or installed.
Nowhere in the installer does it say Pando Media Booster will be downloaded and/or installed.

2.
Regardless of whether or not you see a program called 'pando media booster' being installed during installation is meaningless. If a company has already begun to build you a house, THEN told you that they would add a wall in the middle of your living room AFTER CONSTRUCTION HAS BEGAN, then THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

Regardless of whether or not the EULA mentions Pando Media Booster is irrelevant, as we can only read the EULA once the files are already on our computer, the EULA is hence non-enforcable (case study: age of empires 3). It's like being told after you bought a house that "oh yes and u still have to follow these extra rules that we didn't show you before for no reason aat all".


tl;dr;

We never clicked to download, or clicked to install Pando Media Booster.This is illegal. (but under which law)


This is not a thread about Australian Internet
This is not a thread about how bad Pando is
This is not a thread about the stupidity of the Liberal Government in Australia for believing that Australian internet standards (average dl is a whopping 800kbps in the city and as low as 150kbps in less developed areas)

This is a thread about how RIOT did not place anywhere, accessible or otherwise, that we were downloading and installing 'Pando Media Booster' PRIOR TO DOWNLOAD AND INSTALLATION respectively.

http://biobreak.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/what-did-i-do-to-you-turbine --- Removal of Pando increases down/upload speeds.
http://forum.nexon.net/Mabinogi/forums/2/4667393/ShowThread.aspx --- Mabinogi gamers notice Pando problems with net speed.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385502 --- LotR players complaining about Pando eating bandwidth and never asking permission to exist on their computer.
http://torrentfreak.com/akamai-gamers-arent-p2p-bandwidth-slaves-100915--- Article: Gamers aren't P2P slaves.
http://forums.gamersfirst.com/lofiversion/index.php?t48977.html --- Pando eating RAM and bandwidth. Companies words: "leveraging your spare bandwidth".
http://iris-forum.gpotato.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4808 --- "Pando likes to turn itself on."
http://forum.z8games.com/showthread.php?t=111884 --- Causes lag spikes.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?358455-unacceptable-quot-pando-media-booster-quot-spyware-behavior --- Spywarish? (LotR website again)
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=16582088 --- Penny Arcade forums.
http://www.glaryutilities.com/processlibrary/process/PMB.exe.html --- Numerous people share that Pando stopped eating bandwidth one turned off or uninstalled.
http://pauloflaherty.com/2007/03/14/softwarepilepando-bordering-on-malware/ --- This one is funny.
http://bbs.co.91.com/showthread.php?t=712258 --- Clueless dude has slow net; Googles Pando, deletes it, gets better speeds.




Anyway, I want to hear what the Riot staff have to say about Pando Media Booster, because before I deleted it, it used up more than 4GB of my 10GB of upload usage and I'm not pleased.


For those of you who insist it's in the EULA, come have a read:
EULA
Quote:

End User License Agreement

LEAGUE OF LEGENDS

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WhiteGoblin 02-17-2011 12:23 AM

I don't think it runs in the background... It isn't listed in the startup list or anything, so I'm expecting it only runs during patching. That isn't so bad, but being someone with unlimited bandwidth, I am in a different boat than you.

:edit:

yeah thats right, downvoters... unlimited bandwith suckas!

FlamingPurpleGuy 02-17-2011 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteGoblin (Hozzászólás 6285300)
I don't think it runs in the background... It isn't listed in the startup list or anything, so I'm expecting it only runs during patching. That isn't so bad, but being someone with unlimited bandwidth, I am in a different boat than you.

it does run in the background, even when league of legends isnt running

sainen 02-17-2011 12:28 AM

use task manager to end its process, or just straight up uninstall it after the download is complete.

PinkyThePig 02-17-2011 12:29 AM

If it is running in the background on my computer then it is uploading at bytes per second

Greas3 02-17-2011 12:30 AM

It's fairly intrusive and underhanded. I play a lot at a pc cafe, and whenever a single update starts PBM runs on all the local computers and slows them down to about 20% (100 ping becomes 500 or greater). I guess it prioritizes the computers on the LAN in this case, but we have identified that process to be the one eating the bandwidth of the entire cafe.

Not only is this annoying, but it actually hurts these businesses. People go to PC cafe's for stable connections and consistency, when your game suddenly makes every other computer unusable people flip out and customers are lost.

Hueho 02-17-2011 12:31 AM

AFAIK, only the installer uses Pando. The patcher doesn't.

Not a Cobra 02-17-2011 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hueho (Hozzászólás 6285410)
AFAIK, only the installer uses Pando. The patcher doesn't.

Eh.
Well that explains why it doesn't help server death at maintenance.

What it doesn't explain is why they use something so intrusive and secretive without asking for consent.

And if the comment made about Net Cafes is accurate.....I'm appalled.
I mean wasting a portion of net Quota for one person is one thing, risking a business is another entirely.

Piezo 02-17-2011 12:38 AM

Pando media booster is just for downloading the installer and I don't like the program either so I just uninstalled it immediately after.

Greas3 02-17-2011 12:39 AM

I'm positive it was PBM, I have since deleted it from my personal computer (that sadly can't really run lol anyways... hence the cafe) and it has made a difference. I tried to convince the koreans who own this cafe to delete this file, but they are afraid it will hurt something, and they can be some stubborn people lol.


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