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-   -   I think BORK is in a good spot, I just think it should cost more... (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3190653)

PhysicsMoneyWeed 03-04-2013 05:06 PM

I think BORK is in a good spot, I just think it should cost more...
It gives a ton of stats and a ton of utility for its cost. I think that's the main issue; it's a viable first buy on basically any champion because you can rush it and have it second time back.

I like BORK, I think it's a solid item now. I just don't think it should be so much cheaper than alternative first buys like Bloodthirster that it's an obvious go-to choice.

Must-have items are bad for the game. We've heard this time and time again. So making an item that has stronger utility than Bloodthirster with the same basic function (lots of damage and lifesteal) for less gold is kind of forcing... Everybody who needs lane sustain to buy it first.

PhysicsMoneyWeed 03-04-2013 05:14 PM

Nobody? <__<

WorldOfWoodcraft 03-04-2013 05:16 PM

I think everyone can agree on the cost. The active is just too good in conjunction with the passive. Either raise the cost significantly or eliminate the active. There's just too much burst otherwise.

Xypherous 03-04-2013 05:21 PM

So let me talk about Blade of the Ruined King a little - and what kind of led to the state of the item as it is on live.

Let's get this out of the way first - I screwed up here, if only by judging from the reactions and the state of the competitive solo queue. People feel that their AD carry builds are being unduly constrained and they feel the need to buy the item to counter itself. That, in itself, the AD carry versus AD carry case - is a problem.

So, let's get into the crunchy design portions of the thing and talk about it

1. The item is DPS efficient on squishy characters

Kind of.

Fundamentally, any item built off of current health will always look overpowered when it works. This is because the optimal case for current health damage never actually happens in game.

For example, let's say that BoRK breaks even with BT at 1700 health for the target. What this actually means is that BoRK breaks even with BT at 1700 health for the target assuming there is no other damage sources affected the target at all.

Given that almost every character has base damage on their skills and the like - the balance of numbers shifts terribly - For example, if your mage deals 600 AoE damage to the enemy team - BoRK needs to be extra-efficient to still be a valid HP counter at this point.

This is also why the active is as strong as it is - The use of the active nerfs the passive damage of the item.

2. Current % Health Paradigms are flawed - because the AD carry will follow after the burst casters

This is somewhat true to a certain extent - but the goal of a counter-item is to counter niche cases not strengthen already existing cases. The current BoRK for example, excels at self-peel and is especially good in 1v1 case against bruisers (regardless of what class you are.)

And the current health paradigm allows the item to essentially self-nerf itself when other elements of the game are strong (burst casters).

3. It is a mush-rush first item for a carry?

Kind of.

Again, this boils down to - How much damage is your support adding to your combo? In a Leona lane, for example, you'd be hard pressed to argue that their HP pool is actually 1200 - or how effective your autoattacks are.

4. The active adds more burst than the previous incarnation.

Potentially but it's generally weaker than the previous active - and that's why it rolled out - it was viewed as net neutral in most contexts.

150 + 0.5 TAD on an item with 45 AD roughly breaks even with the previous active at 1466 health - which is an HP threshold that only tanks/bruisers break early.

But the item is clearly overpowered on live and ruining the game experience!

Most likely. However, I'm more concerned with whether the item feels counterable at this stage. Rest assured though, we're not going to wait on the next patch to fix it. We knew going out that the item could have come out pretty crazy - and watching it over the weekend - it has been pretty crazy at is.

So we'll be hotfixing this as soon as we're comfortable with the server situation (Along with some other bugs.)

The Stormchaser 03-04-2013 05:22 PM

under xypherous

As far as im concerned, it does have a counter: randuins. But when you see like 7-8 borks and rands per game, that is a fking problem. It counters each other, but that leads to stale builds and decision making

Jaden 03-04-2013 05:23 PM

Xyph speaks.

Zerglinator 03-04-2013 05:23 PM

Why was there little response to PBE feedback Xyph? Will you post on those forums more?

I think it would be helpful to get your feedback to our feedback there.

Dunkelheitt 03-04-2013 05:23 PM

under Zerglinator

onboardtonowhere 03-04-2013 05:23 PM

At least xypherous agrees.

PhysicsMoneyWeed 03-04-2013 05:24 PM

Oh my gosh, my first ever red post :O... I feel honored.

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