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-   -   Noctourne, jungle or top. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3074433)

Slooth 02-02-2013 12:32 AM

Noctourne, jungle or top.
Hey, I am kinda new to noctourne and I keep getting mixed views from people telling me to top lane, and other people telling me to jungle. Which one is better and why? Thanks for any help you can give.

M3GaL0d0n 02-02-2013 01:44 AM

Because of how powerful Nocturne is in general, both roles are fabulous for him. However, due to him being a poor duelist (Generally), you need to watch your match ups to make sure your opponent doesn't counter you. There was a FOTM which saw Nunu in top lane for a while, Nocturne excelled during this. Mostly because Nunu was all but completely crippled if a Nocturne player could consistently block incoming Iceblasts. However the list of Nocturne's winning match ups ends there. He lacks the harassment of most champions because he can't deal much damage outside melee, and his outright killing potential is mostly wasted against other bruisers because he doesn't have the finishing potential to rake in kills on his own.

This means that Nocturne is a better ganker than a laner, his gap-closing and clear times are nearly unmatched except by a few other champions; (Namely Lee Sin and Shyvana), combined with fairly powerful CC, make Nocturne one of the best junglers and gankers. He's fallen from his former glory over time. He was extremely powerful during the first two seasons. But even now, he's a strong assassin who can disorient entire teams and take out enemy carries extremely fast when built glass cannon. Or he can play as a bruiser... Well, nevermind that, he's a pathetic bruiser. There once was another FOTM that had him building Frozen Mallet, Sunfire and Wit's End (WHICH WAS HILARIOUS). The importance of health has been emphasized in season 3, so he's a lot more durable now. But he's still similar to Kha'zix and uses a very similar glass-cannon play style and build. When you build, look for the following...

-Jungling speed through Hunters machete or lane mobility with boots and potions with both.

-Damage and utility though a Brutalizer, or Phage if you've failed your first few ganks or otherwise fallen behind.

-If you're doing well, pick up the pace with a pair of Berserker's Grieves, or hunker down with Ninja Tabi, if you're having trouble with shielding stuns or powerful slows, grab a Mercury Treads, but only if CC is really giving you trouble.

-Toss in Wriggle's Lantern here if you've Jungling, sell it later, when you build another lifesteal item. Make sure you have Tier 2 boots of some kind at this point.

-Get a little bit of health through things like Phage if you don't have it already, then finish off Youmuu's Ghostblade, and work on Frozen Mallet with a Giant's belt, or go straight into another Brutalizer if you don't need the extra health.

-After you have a Phage and Ghostblade (With or without a Giants Belt), get another Brutalizer, and either finish Frozen Mallet or skip it and go straight for a Black Cleaver. Nocturne is very sticky and hard to peel with just Ghostblade's active and Duskbringer.

-Get damage and sustain through Bloodthirster or Ravenous Hydra. Note that these synergize well with each other, but make sure you mix in defense with your damage and lifesteal, or enemies will burst you down. Only get both if you can drive home a win easily.

-If you still have a Phage, work on finishing off Frozen Mallet at this point.

-Balance out your build with things like Guardian Angel or Atma's Impaler and Maw of Malmortius for sustain or durability, once again, depending on how well you're doing.

(Just a Note, this is a little confusing, but there's no rush on the Mallet unless enemies are carrying an unusually large number of Summoner Ghosts or other movespeed steroids and you cannot compete with the raw movement speed and therfore need a slow. Or, if you are dying a lot and you need the extra health instead of damage.)

As for tactics, Nocturne is very much a right click to win champion. Make sure you land Duskbringer, or at least set them up so you can use them to chase enemies even if you don't hit them. Make sure you block incoming disables with Shroud of Darkness, only block damage if it is an extremely powerful nuke or if it attaches a debuff which can disable you, such as Brand's Sear ability. Always use Unspeakable horror on the enemy you intend to kill, or an enemy you wish to run away from if a gank or dive goes sour.

Finally, once team fights start, you win want to fight with LIFO tactics, which means Last In, First Out, the opposite of a tank or bruiser. You are very squishy as an assassin, which means you want to make sure your tank is in position to make himself a target, usually this is right after they initiate. Allow your team to whittle down enemies, or get them out of position, then activate Paranoia, and dive in after vulnerable enemies. Make sure enemies do not target you, or disable you in such a way that you cannot escape with a flash or by having your tank bail you out.

Your job is to quickly nuke down squishy enemies who would otherwise turn the tides of a battle for their team. And snowball the fight from there. You want to attack isolated enemies, who cannot be saved by their tanks or supports by the time you kill them. Usually this is the AD carry, but be aware of the enemy team and what their roles are, and who would most benefit your team by being dead.

-GLHF and stuff. Feel free to ask more questions if you like.

Sereg Anfaug 02-02-2013 07:49 AM

Jungle. Nocturne's greatest strength is his map presence and the pressure he can exert on all lanes simply by popping his ultimate.

Top lane is not very mobile, at least compared to mid and jungle, and his presence is much weaker there then in the jungle. His kit also lends itself moreso to the AoE clearing of the jungle, and will probably end up pushing too quickly in lane, leaving him vulnerably overextended, or even unable to continue farming against an opponent that can freeze the lane.

Slooth 02-02-2013 02:30 PM

Thanks for all your help on this, How should I jungle with Noctourne when I am only level 20, like what skill trees should I invest in, or runes should I equip.

CapnNemo 02-02-2013 09:18 PM

I've only recently started on Nocturne, but for basic jungling, you could invest in the armor runes (flat/Seals) and armor piercing runes (also flat/Marks though stacking would help better in ganks).

As for masteries, if your confident the armor runes will help you, max out the points in the Offense masteries that start from 'Fury' vertically down to 'Executioner' (may not have this at level 20) and add points to 'Havoc', 'Butcher', and 'Sorcery' to cover the points distribution prerequisites.

All of these will also help in hero fights as well, though your natural 'squishiness' must be handled well. Like previously mentioned, stay out of damaging situations and play sneaky :p

These are the recommendations of someone who naturally plays casters but couldn't help play Nocturne after hearing him say 'Darknesssssssssssssss'.

Sereg Anfaug 02-02-2013 09:32 PM

Correction - you want AS reds, not ArPen, to proc both your machete and your passive more often. My nocturne masteries are 21-9-0, which you can't exactly replicate at level 20, but I'd say take the 9 in defence(bladed armor, health regen, armor), and put the rest in the melee side of offence.

CapnNemo 02-02-2013 09:54 PM

I understand the need for proc'ing the passive more often, but doesn't the ArPen help better in the long run? Including hero kills, i mean. It serves a wider purpose, doesn't it? And slightly off topic, does the ArPen affect other units hit by the passive?

And thanks for the quick input. I've been at LoL for about a month. Any and all info is helpful. (A DotA convert)

M3GaL0d0n 02-02-2013 10:28 PM

Arpen, or Armor penetration, reduces the effect of all Armor. Armor does not just reduce damage from basic attacks, but all physical damage, through spells or attacks. If an ability (Including passives) does physical damage for whatever reason, it will benefit from ArPen. As for whether or not its a good choice on Nocturne? The answer is generally no. AS gives him more opportunities for procing his passive, which is more useful than dealing a small amount of bonus damage on abilities and auto attacks because nocturne is generally a glass-cannon anyways. Also, non-epic creeps do not have any armor until they've been killed and respawned a few times, which means that you're already dealing true damage to them so ArPen will not yield any benefit at all.


Originally Posted by Sereg Anfaug (Hozzászólás 34224613)
Correction - you want AS reds, not ArPen, to proc both your machete and your passive more often. My nocturne masteries are 21-9-0, which you can't exactly replicate at level 20, but I'd say take the 9 in defence(bladed armor, health regen, armor), and put the rest in the melee side of offence.

Not sure why this was downvoted, It's pretty good advice...

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