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-   Dominion (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=43)
-   -   Playing Bot and Ganking (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2913051)

VegaTDM 12-17-2012 08:24 AM

Playing Bot and Ganking
 
I Love/hate playing bot on Dom. On the upside I have less goals and can focus on outlaning 1 person. But when they all lose top I cant just walk up there and gank.
It always seems my teammates that normally always go top have no idea when/when not to gank bot. So here are some tips.

Point Priority is
Mid > Bot > Top > Enemy Bot > Enemy Mid.


This means,


If we don't currently have top I don't want to see you in my lane unless they are 4 man ganking me on point. Ganking bot when I don't need help creates a 1 man disadvantage top, making it that much harder to keep/cap the point.

If the enemy sends extra people bot to gank me and we dont have top tower, go cap it while we have the man advantage. If I need help I will ask for it.

Unless bot asks for help, or is in danger or being Capped(not neturalized) you time is probably better spent top. If you need to roam then backcap them.


All around pointers:
If no one is currently standing on a point, CAP IT.
If the enemy team sends 5 people top. Bot better be capping the enemy bot.
Watch the minimap, and pay attention to where each enemy goes, heading people off with ganks is very easy in Dom since you can all hide in brush and bait with speed shrine.




TOP DOMINION SECRET
Dominion is all about pressure. Lane pressure and jungle pressure.
EXAMPLE: I usually play bot with Yorick. So I make it my goal to push as hard as I can, while being safe and not dying. My goal is to put bot in such a bad state, he has to ask for a gank. So either I push and kill him and/or take his point, or I create a man advantage top for my team.

I create pressure on bottom, but I don't die at all costs. Revive if I do to be back in lane before they can cap. Creating pressure in one lane lessens the pressure on another. Use this to make your enemys go where YOU want them. Being bot I can't gank top, ever. So I create pressure to hopefully either cap a point/or cause a man advantage top so that They will cap a point.


I've been up all night and this probably doesn't make much sense. Will edit for clarity latter. Crashing now.

DiscworldDeath 12-17-2012 08:34 AM

Oy, this post is so full of wrong. Every day my desire to make a post about the bot laner schizophrenia (if you gank bot - I'm doing fine. If you don't gank bot, "I got ganked, of course I lost).

Gank bot. Gank bot all day long.

Gank, and gank again.
The earlier it is in the game, gank more! Just don't kill creeps if you gank early, even just making it so the enemy bot laner can't get xp/gold but your bot laner gets all the creeps is worth it. Bot lane CAN snowball, so if you get your bot laner 2 levels ahead, you're likely not going to need to gank more, and they are going to often have to send 2 bot just to hold, not to take your point even.

Gank bot all day, every day. This line, right here? Worth 200-400 Elo, easy.

* Gank bot lane doesn't mean staying there endlessly. But if I stay to help you, and you go B, I'm staying there till you come back. It's not me switching with you. Come back, let me go back top.

FOODFOOD 12-17-2012 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegaTDM
All around pointers:
If no one is currently standing on a point, CAP IT.

I disagree with this pretty passionately. I used to think this, but as I rose in elo, this is less and less true. If no one is standing at the Windmill, it's because they're standing near the Windmill, waiting to kill you.

Also, bot is INCREDIBLY important. Some people even go so far as to say that bot lane wins every game. Seriously, gank bot. A lot. Then do it again.

Nyx87 12-17-2012 09:09 AM

Swing and a miss.

Quote:

Oy, this post is so full of wrong. Every day my desire to make a post about the bot laner schizophrenia (if you gank bot - I'm doing fine. If you don't gank bot, "I got ganked, of course I lost).

Gank bot. Gank bot all day long.

Gank, and gank again.
The earlier it is in the game, gank more! Just don't kill creeps if you gank early, even just making it so the enemy bot laner can't get xp/gold but your bot laner gets all the creeps is worth it. Bot lane CAN snowball, so if you get your bot laner 2 levels ahead, you're likely not going to need to gank more, and they are going to often have to send 2 bot just to hold, not to take your point even.

Gank bot all day, every day. This line, right here? Worth 200-400 Elo, easy.

* Gank bot lane doesn't mean staying there endlessly. But if I stay to help you, and you go B, I'm staying there till you come back. It's not me switching with you. Come back, let me go back top.
Grand Slam.

KaWraith 12-17-2012 09:19 AM

here is my humble 2000+ ELO opinion from playing a LOT of bot lane....

the game is about point control: if your gank doesn't secure the bot point, or cause so much confusion on the enemy team that you can retake top; you wasted your trip.

9 times out of 10, I would rather someone just walked over and took the enemy bot point, instead of trying to kill the enemy bot laner.

Orphane 12-17-2012 09:42 AM

Someone doesn't know about the MMKH flowchart

Fabs457 12-17-2012 10:45 AM

If you don't see all their enemy champs already on the map (and they aren't on death CD), you cannot assume you can simply just cap one of their towers.

Normally you should assume they are in the bush or are going to gank your own bot. If you're caught out alone applying pressure to a lane that can be reversed pretty easily (they are not AI Bots), you're leaving your own team at a disadvantage. Nothing pisses me off more about blindpick than seeing my teammates die in between top and the opposing mid. It leads towards seeing our top lost/enemies inevitably heading down bot to gank me.

Chavez Obama 12-17-2012 10:55 AM

MMKH flowchart.

cocacolalips 12-17-2012 12:31 PM

2V1 is easier than 4V4.

If you can't cap top, there's not much point in insisting over and over; make the plays happen. ;D

kirillian 12-17-2012 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegaTDM (Hozzászólás 32533934)
I Love/hate playing bot on Dom. On the upside I have less goals and can focus on outlaning 1 person. But when they all lose top I cant just walk up there and gank.
It always seems my teammates that normally always go top have no idea when/when not to gank bot. So here are some tips.

Point Priority is
Mid > Bot > Top > Enemy Bot > Enemy Mid.


This means,


If we don't currently have top I don't want to see you in my lane unless they are 4 man ganking me on point. Ganking bot when I don't need help creates a 1 man disadvantage top, making it that much harder to keep/cap the point.

If the enemy sends extra people bot to gank me and we dont have top tower, go cap it while we have the man advantage. If I need help I will ask for it.

Unless bot asks for help, or is in danger or being Capped(not neturalized) you time is probably better spent top. If you need to roam then backcap them.


All around pointers:
If no one is currently standing on a point, CAP IT.
If the enemy team sends 5 people top. Bot better be capping the enemy bot.
Watch the minimap, and pay attention to where each enemy goes, heading people off with ganks is very easy in Dom since you can all hide in brush and bait with speed shrine.




TOP DOMINION SECRET
Dominion is all about pressure. Lane pressure and jungle pressure.
EXAMPLE: I usually play bot with Yorick. So I make it my goal to push as hard as I can, while being safe and not dying. My goal is to put bot in such a bad state, he has to ask for a gank. So either I push and kill him and/or take his point, or I create a man advantage top for my team.

I create pressure on bottom, but I don't die at all costs. Revive if I do to be back in lane before they can cap. Creating pressure in one lane lessens the pressure on another. Use this to make your enemys go where YOU want them. Being bot I can't gank top, ever. So I create pressure to hopefully either cap a point/or cause a man advantage top so that They will cap a point.


I've been up all night and this probably doesn't make much sense. Will edit for clarity latter. Crashing now.

The issue with this statement is that you are playing Yorick. You are a 1 man pushing machine. Very few bot laners can keep up with your pushing potential. Any other botlaner has to deal with reality...they can't push bot turret all day long and force 1v2s in EVERY game. You can. So, your viewpoint is slightly skewed from this. It's actually as others have said. Ganking botlane is VERY important and helps. Besides, if ganking botlane gains you 2 lvls+ on the other laner, a lane swap or 1v2 perma lane is incoming. Nothing helps your team more than getting that 1v2 lane permanently. If they can't neutralize your turret from that 1v2 lane and/or you can consistently duel 1 or both of them (looking at you Jax...), then your top lane is GOLDEN.


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