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-   -   Zed, the Redundant Assassin (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2798572)

Mirehn 11-14-2012 11:17 AM

Zed, the Redundant Assassin
 
I don't mind new champs. I love new champions. But I was hoping to gauge the community's reaction to another assassin champ. We've had Rengar, Kha'zix, Elise and now Zed. That's four champions that fulfill the same exact role. The League needs new supports, champs with higher durability (not sustain) and less mobility. Right now, mobility creep is becoming a serious problem, and is negating many skill shot based champs that have lock downs.

MasterEvilAce 11-14-2012 11:40 AM

Elise is fairly useless, imo. Her abilities don't really come together to form any sort of cohesive kit. Spectating an Elise and watching her use her abilities makes her playstyle not seem very fluid or fun. 90% of the time when Rappel is used, she goes up into the air, just to come back down and get focused. If she doesn't select a target, she should be able to come back down within a SMALLER area around her.. so she could use it to jump over small walls.

Having said that, the champions riot seems to design end up being tanky while still pumping out massive burst damage. They have too much utility, and do too much. IMO Riot is screwing up logical balance, and taking away reasons to play squishy champions. Rengar, for instance, can build tanky and still do massive amounts of damage. He can heal himself, he can slow, he can stealth for a fairly long time (enough to juke completely out of danger). A GOOD Rengar is completely safe in lane, and a danger in team fights.

I am of the mind that if you want tanky, you trade damage/range/mobility. If you want damage, you trade tankiness. If you want insane damage, you should rely on more skillshot based abilities (lux). Riot instead designs something like Diana.. who is tanky and does damage. She's melee, but her ranged ability allows her to dash a fairly far distance.. once she's on you, she has abilities to keep you close. If you try to fight her, she can pop her shield to get even stronger. She can also use her dash as an escape, as if that wasn't enough. If you have a shield or sustain, you shouldn't be innately tanky; those things should add to your kit, because you lack them. Builds are stale because certain base stats are so high. If you already do crazy base damage, just build tanky. If you're already tanky, just build damage

IMO, champs like Sejuani are good. She's tanky, has a lot of CC, and is a great disruptor. The only reason she's considered underpowered is that you have other tanks that do everything better (Amumu for instance.) Syndra is a great champion, but hard to play and a little niche, so she is unpopular.

I haven't seen enough of Zed, yet... but he really does seem like a LeBlanc + Talon. I can't say much else.. other than his abilities clutter gameplay. Watch the champion spotlight, where they show him chaining his ult + abilities on Shen. You can hardly tell what's going on there's so much black smoke everywhere. Shen basically disappears completely behind it all. If he didn't have Ki-strike up and a healthbar, you would have no idea anybody was there. That's not helping gameplay at all.

Mirehn 11-14-2012 11:48 AM

I seriously do think there should be a trade-off between high mobility and high damage. Right now, many champions coming out have both, plus some form of innate tankiness that makes them very powerful (like Diana, as you said). There's a reason Ezreal is king of bot lane, high mobility plus high damage. Mobility itself is a healthy form of defense. Characters with that much mobility also tend to snowball really hard (Katarina and Eve come to mind) because of fast itemization, high damage output, and good mobility.

Wulfestopheles 11-14-2012 11:49 AM

Elise is a mage. People are sucking with her because they are trying to play her as an Assassin.

MasterEvilAce 11-14-2012 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirehn (Hozzászólás 31411135)
I seriously do think there should be a trade-off between high mobility and high damage. Right now, many champions coming out have both, plus some form of innate tankiness that makes them very powerful (like Diana, as you said). There's a reason Ezreal is king of bot lane, high mobility plus high damage. Mobility itself is a healthy form of defense. Characters with that much mobility also tend to snowball really hard (Katarina and Eve come to mind) because of fast itemization, high damage output, and good mobility.

Absolutely mobility is a good defense. Katarina IS squishy, and melee, so she can shunpo offensively or defensively. She probably does do too much damage later in the game, but you are also jumping in the middle of a teamfight. I have a bigger problem with Eve, however. She's stealthy, so she can run around and negate everything except vision wards. The element of surprise is huge in league, so I think Stealth is overpowered at the moment. By the time you see her, she's likely going to start attacking immediately. Before you can react, she's already slowing you. If you try to run or slow her, she breaks out of it and gets bonus movement speed. Her shield also gets ridiculously strong at times.

The whole idea of stealth should be to get within range and sneak up on enemies. At that point, you're in range to do your damage. I don't think she deserves to be able to slow enemies or get a speed increase; she can completely control if/when a fight happens, and that's not good. Her damage is fine, I think, considering she is completely melee... but that slow/speed boost allows her to stay in range until you die. That's not right. The speed boost/slow I wouldn't have a problem with if I could see her coming. If she's running at me, I have time to react, and potentially counter play it. I can't counter-play what I can't see right next to me. Once I do see her, it's probably too late.

I feel like the best example of an assassin that Riot has put out would be Fizz.

JunkRamen 11-14-2012 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirehn (Hozzászólás 31410072)
Right now, mobility creep is becoming a serious problem, and is negating many skill shot based champs that have lock downs.

Literally almost every top tier AP and ADC uses skill shots. Let's not act like Morgana, Orianna, Anivia, Ezreal, or Corki are weak when we try to make a point, ok?

Swampi 11-14-2012 12:05 PM

2 months ago "Stop making so many bruisers there's like no assassins QQ" always gotta find something to cry about huh GD?

EcksTeaSea 11-14-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swampi (Hozzászólás 31411691)
2 months ago "Stop making so many bruisers there's like no assassins QQ" always gotta find something to cry about huh GD?

Riot should just stop making champions for a time being and work out everything with the current set we have now and take more than two weeks to release something.

Ezrabar 11-14-2012 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EcksTeaSea (Hozzászólás 31411759)
Riot should just stop making champions for a time being and work out everything with the current set we have now and take more than two weeks to release something.

Because riot hates making money right?

EcksTeaSea 11-14-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezrabar (Hozzászólás 31411871)
Because riot hates making money right?

Skin sales OP. Compared to how much the game might get better in the long run, I would hope they would at least consider slowing down how many champions they are putting out and work with the huge current set we have now.


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