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-   -   A Ponderance... (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2783118)

Maleric 11-10-2012 07:18 AM

A Ponderance...
So... I'm wondering how exactly matchmaking works.

Case and point, I was in a game I lost, but went 8/6/7 as riven, which I would consider to be pretty decent considering how one sided the game was (and it was REALLY one sided). Somehow this loss turned into my fault because I couldn't go god mode and do 1v5's and shield everyone and protect every turret while they pushed into enemy jungle, individually, and fed... Matchmaking apparently sees me as equal to these people. Therefore in matchmaking's eye's I'm just as bad as them, to my belief.

Second case, I was in a game I won and went 5/2/9, again as Riven. Apparently, according to our tf, I was terribad cause when he was pushing their second tower top, and had half health or less, and I couldn't shield him, and fight off the 3 focusing him. Naturally I ran away to avoid dieing myself. He was already dead, and there was nothing I could do to save him or get any kills as they were all full health, so why should I die? Matchmaking sees me the same as him and puts us together.

Therefore according to matchmaking, I should consider myself an insane feeder, not a team player, who constantly is off on his own and dieing for stupid reasons. I also apparently rage a lot.

I have serious issues, and thank Matchmaking for allowing me to see the error of my ways. Seriously though... am I truly seen to be exactly like those people or is there something I'm missing in matchmaking? I would appreciate it if someone could explain it to me.

P.S. I'm in no way saying I'm the best player, just not a raging terribad...

MZFahkyhu 11-10-2012 07:27 AM

Unless its ranked, I believe there's a hidden elo in norm matchmaking. More wins might result in differences in players attitude. That TF sounds pretty bad if he let himself get caught. Couldn't say much else without spectator mode going on one of your games.

Gl hf, game on
- Fak

Maleric 11-10-2012 07:32 AM

I'm in unranked atm, though I'll be entering ranked soon. I can't really speak on how tf should be played as I've never played him, but I do know it's not smart to engage a 1v5 (he did this on bot lane pushing later...).

Anyway, so basically I apparently have roughly the same win/loss ratio as him? That's depressing...

PogoPogoPogoPogo 11-10-2012 07:33 AM

How would you change match-making in order to fix this perceived problem?

Maleric 11-10-2012 07:44 AM

Well I truly don't know enough about matchmaking unless it really is just as simple as win/loss ratio, but I would imagine you could add some sort of considerations for how well an individual did in any particular game and that would determine how strongly a win or loss is considered. You do really well, that loss isn't going to hurt you that badly. You do poorly that win isn't going to help you that much. They do have pretty much every stat they could want already being tracked to base this system off of.

PogoPogoPogoPogo 11-10-2012 07:51 AM

Well for one, it's not strictly win/loss ratio. Normals do have a hidden Elo which is used in match-making, and wins give you Elo while Losses will lose Elo for you, but that doesn't mean that if Johnny is 500W/500L, he'll be the same Elo as Timmy, with 500W/500L. Once you reach your appropriate Elo, whether ranked or normal, your W/L ratio will normalize to 50% (because that's the whole goal of Elo).

But you can't really come up with some formula that will fairly assign all players of a team the proper amount of rating based on how much they contributed to an individual win.

The only thing that can properly credit you for the amount you personally contributed to wins is looking at the massively big picture. If you're winning more games than you lose, whatever it is that you're doing (EVEN if you go 0/50/0 every match with Karma) is causing teams that you play on to be more likely to win than lose.

After hundreds and hundreds of matches, no matter what your stats look like, if you're winning more than you're losing, the only possible explanation is that it's because of something that you're doing.

Maleric 11-10-2012 08:25 AM

1 person can't carry an unwilling team. If karma went 0/5/0 but based on healing, damage done, or damage absorbed (including her shield), then she could get credit for that even on a loss and the loss not count as much. You can get stuck in a rut and then once you're in low elo you are around some worse players than where you were before. There's nothing you personally really do. Sometimes you'll get lucky and go on a winning streak or something similar to break out of it. True that the lower you go the better you'll do and you can gruelingly make the difference every so often, but still 1 person can't carry a team.

PogoPogoPogoPogo 11-10-2012 09:16 AM

The problem is you're looking at things on a 1 game scale.

You need to look at things on a 100 game scale or larger. If what you're doing wins more matches than it loses, and what your teammates are doing loses more matches than it wins, you'll probably lose that individual match. But play 99 more matches. Your teammates will lose more of their matches. You'll win most of yours. And then if you want to look at your wins on a scale of one game, look at your average win rate and cut that down to a scale of one game.

You can't control your teammates (though match-maker does a better job then you'd think). Heck, you don't even know that your teammates actually all are way better than you, but you're have a better than average game while they're having a worse than average game. All you can control is your own play.

And over the course of a large sample size, if what you're doing wins more games than it loses, you'll be moved into higher groups with better teammates and opponents because in the long run, you'll be winning more games than you lose.

PogoPogoPogoPogo 11-10-2012 09:18 AM

If you've ever played poker, if you understand odds, then the same applies here. When you're deciding whether to call, raise, or fold, you're not betting on what you think the next card will be on this draw. You're betting (or should be, if you're playing profitably) on what you know the odds are.

And it's really a basic "Expected Value" problem out of a Finite Mathematics college course.

Dry Ace 11-10-2012 04:56 PM

But pogo! In poker I'm not relying on the emotional stability of 4 other people playing my hand as well!!! The only emotional stability that matters with my actions are my own, and my opponent...

Unless, of course I have split personality disorder...


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