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-   -   AD carries and AP carries, and their nonexistence in 3v3 (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2774470)

Oconoco 11-07-2012 01:21 PM

AD carries and AP carries, and their nonexistence in 3v3
 
Hello all,
My team and I have been playing 3's for a long time. We've recently found that it is impossible to find a 3v3 team that does not play 3 tanks (mummy, alister, shyvanna, singed, darius, riven, ect). We really think it's an issue that riot needs to adress. We can not counter these teams because the counter items, are locked in 3v3.
This is making it so we can not play ap casters and ad ranged carries.

Grombolar 11-07-2012 01:32 PM

If you are going to play squishies you need to play extremely passive. Don't go in the jungle if there's a mia and don't attempt to defend alters early if you don't have the damage yet. Just chill and farm. The reason bruisers are gods is because they have good damage early without many items compared to AD and AP carries and can force fights at the alters early on.

NapalmBrain 11-07-2012 02:00 PM

blade of ruined king for ad, blackfire torch for ap for high hp teams

Kalarepa 11-07-2012 02:47 PM

I've noticed, AP carries with high range and anti-movement CC (Lux, Zyra) are pretty good in TT, if they just have bruisers to stay at front and protect them.
And AD carries... they have pretty hard life in this mode.

Atm the best team is probably AD bruiser, long range high CC AP carry and another bruiser of any kind. No place for squishy ADs

fazisi 11-07-2012 02:52 PM

Play less aggressive. In general, AP carries are more powerful mid-game and AD carries are more powerful late-game. Because of the amount of starting gold and the 2 minute unlock of the altars, fights start early in Treeline. Just play safe and wait for your opportunities. Remember that even carries need some sort of defense sometimes.

67chrome 11-07-2012 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalarepa (Hozzászólás 31163604)
I've noticed, AP carries with high range and anti-movement CC (Lux, Zyra) are pretty good in TT, if they just have bruisers to stay at front and protect them.
And AD carries... they have pretty hard life in this mode.

Atm the best team is probably AD bruiser, long range high CC AP carry and another bruiser of any kind. No place for squishy ADs

Generally I've noticed these teams do pretty well. Being able to completly shut down a target in a 3v3 is pretty strong, and just about all mages can accomplish that long enough to get a significant edge. Morgana is probably the hardest one to deal with I've run into so far.

As far as AD carries, I've seen some perform well, but most of the champions that do well in Twisted Treelines already are pretty much anti-carries and have kits designed to dive past 4 enemies to pummel a carry to death in Summoner's Rift, so you need a pretty substantial amount of peeling power on the front line to pull it off. Like a Wukong+Shen wombo combo or something. Demi-Carries like Kayle can do rather well to, especially with her self preservation capacities. And glass-cannon Kayle isn't so glass cannony when she has things like a Shen ultimate fallowed by her own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dualrate (Hozzászólás 31160379)
Hello all,
My team and I have been playing 3's for a long time. We've recently found that it is impossible to find a 3v3 team that does not play 3 tanks (mummy, alister, shyvanna, singed, darius, riven, ect). We really think it's an issue that riot needs to adress. We can not counter these teams because the counter items, are locked in 3v3.
This is making it so we can not play ap casters and ad ranged carries.

Technically half of those are bruisers, while they could all be considered "tanky DPS" I wouldn't call them tanks, as it overstates their survivability and understates their damage potential. Calling them tanks is like calling Nidalee and Kayle supports, Teemo and Jayce AD Carries, Tryndamere and Fiora Bruisers, or Soraka and Janna AP Carries.

Sevrin 11-07-2012 04:30 PM

Don't roam without protection, and focus on positioning in teamfights. I've been ruined by an Annie who used the jungle terrain very well in teamfights to stay alive
Also, build for the map! 5v5 builds don't work so well on 3s. I'm playing Eve as an AP bruiser, and it's godly! The new items really help with this

Focus on kiting (movespeed/cc) and build more health/armour/MR than your used to. ROA, Rylais, Blackfire Torch, and Wooglets are amazing for this purpose.

KenjiKatana 11-07-2012 10:06 PM

I would say AD range carries are stronger now because of the changes to TT. First example is the improved jungle. The Jungle now offers more chances for experience early on because the camps are easier to kill compared to red, green, and grey buff. This makes it easier to give farm to the gold hungry ad carry because the meta is no longer just 1 top and 2 bot where you would end up with one really farmed and lvled teammate and two gold competing champs that hurt each other's farm count in the long run. The AD carry, left alone in lane, can easily farm from a range and stay away from the opposing brusier that would love to jump on the carry and is able to get to the valued late game damage faster because they are able to farm without having to compete.
The bot lane would be preferable by the ad carry because there is now less fog caused by bushes near the lane.
The advantages of having an ad ranged carry is that the opponent will spend valuable time trying to close the gap while the carry's two teammates beat on him. As long as the ad carry isn't caught and has that late game damage then there is an advantage against the 3 bruiser/tank team.there is also the fact that teams with a ranged ad are able to kill turrets and vilemaw much easier. especialy caitlyn who outranges vilemaw's most devestating attack when it pulverizes the ground.

GrooveTrain 11-08-2012 09:16 AM

You know, I play Cho'gath every single game of TT, unless I'm in the mood for warwick. I rush Wit's End and then stock up on resistance items, without fail, every game. In my last 20 games I have won 18. My teams have consisted of squishies, bruisers, jungles, supports; pretty much every role represented. The enemy team comps have been varied, too. Even triple bruisers have fallen. Even Darius/Singed combos have fallen.

I'm a <1000 elo SR player. I don't claim to be good, though I play a decently strong support in 1500-1600 ranked 5's. You can take my opinion to mean whatever you want, even nothing. But my understanding of the argument seems to be that a player at my level should be getting crushed consistantly by triple bruiser comps, and this just isn't happening in my experience. Either I am consistently a LOT better than the people I am getting matched up against, or the "3x bruiser OP" argument is wrong.

Argothes 11-08-2012 10:12 AM

It's obvious that in the new Twisted Treeline the meta has evolved to require all tanky bruisers.

When me and a couple of my friends decided to bum rush Twisted Treeline for Gold rating, my friends had no idea what they were doing. I played Twisted Treeline many times in the past but they had no idea. At the time, the standard meta was two tanky AD bruisers and one tanky mage. This made our roster very small which contributed to our mastery of our champions and our multiple wins throughout the season. Since I'm stuck at ~1300 elo (but can compete at a much higher Elo) I'm faced with many more champions than my teammates who play at around ~1800 elo. Despite this extensive difference, I'm able to carry all the time with my knowledge of multiple champions that they never encounter in high elo play. Our team comp of Darius Pantheon Gragas was almost unbeatable for many reasons. 1) Darius is Darius. 2) Pantheon destroys other tanky bruisers with his armor pen and raw burst damage 3) Gragas makes and breaks team fights in our favor and has extraordinary tankiness and mobility with his abilities. Unfortunately for us, the meta changed while we were rushing to platinum (2 tanky AP 1 AD) and our strategy was nullified. If a team was able to harness Cho'Gath and Zyra/Nunu, they didn't even need a tanky AD, they could use Tristana or Kog'Maw to insta-burst our old-legendary team.

However, the new Twisted Treeline has changed the meta dramatically. Now it seems that if you are anything else besides a tanky AD/Bruiser/Hybrid the game is lost. Standard AP champions (tanky or not) do not have a place inside the Twisted Treeline anymore, and tanks don't either. A Malphite without AP is useless against a team of high mobile tanky bruiser champions (Jax, Lee Sin, Garen, Shyvanna, Olaf, Riven, Darius, Jayce) and the problem are parallel with other off-tank-off-AP champs like Amumu. The only tank that serves a true purpose in Twisted Treeline is Rammus when the enemy team has a Tryndamere :P Cho'Gath has a special place since he deals a ridiculous amount of AP/AS/True Damage and tanks the world so AP champs technically are viable but if you want to run a ranged AD like Caitlyn and the enemy team has tanky AD Bruisers, you might as well surrender.


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