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-   -   An Armor / Attack Speed Item (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2767007)

Nea De Penserhir 11-05-2012 02:23 PM

An Armor / Attack Speed Item
 
Anyone else notice a bit of a void for this? On certain champions I'll be tapping my lip and be like "Man, I need armor, but if I don't get some attack speed, I kind of invalidate myself."

However, a high armor / attack speed item could be troublesome when dealing with AD carries, so the best way to solve this is having the item where the stats itself aren't worth the slot, but has a decent passive that wouldn't benefit a ranged as much. So, let's throw out some ideas.
-----------------

Coat of Arms
-Cloth Armor + Cloth Armor + Dagger + 650g
+44 armor
+25% Attack Speed

Unique Passive

Idea 1 - Taking damage increases attack speed by 4%, stacking up to 6 times. Lasts for 4 seconds.
Idea 2 - Increases attack speed by X%(Like .4%) per 1% health missing.
Idea 3 - Tenacity

JustMyBassCannon 11-05-2012 02:35 PM

Madred's Bloodrazors in SR.

Otherwise, yeah, that's a noticeable gap. And Madred's needs improvements as well.

Nea De Penserhir 11-05-2012 03:03 PM

That's sort of the issue. Bloodrazor is just unappealing. I never looked at it and was like "This will solve all my problems. Except that I'm not one of the four champions that make use of it, and the enemy team isn't health stacking."

RockJockey 11-05-2012 08:22 PM

People will probably comment that you shouldn't be stacking attack speed and armor, or that such an item wont synergize. However I always wish there was such an item whenever I play Rammus because getting a Phantom Dancer or a Wit's End on him doesn't feel right.

If such an item were too exist, I would hope it had a passive similar to Wit's End to increase DPS.

Soviet Swain approves AS/AR items
-Rockjockey

Xypherous 11-06-2012 12:30 AM

AS/AR is kind of a niche item primarily for bruisers who can autoattack. There isn't a whole lot of classes that would actually like such a stat.

So essentially, you'd be making an item for Lee Sin/Udyr/Shyv/Irelia - which immediately jumps at the question of 'Do they actually need this item?'

Currently, I'm at the opinion that while yes, there is a void here - it's probably an okay void to have unless we're somehow trying to make early armor viable on AD carries.

That said, in the jungle, attack speed / armor is really appealing on pretty much everyone who jungles - So if an item were to be made along these stat lines, the large bulk of the item's gold value would probably go towards being jungle-related to help autoattack bruisers transition better into the mid / late game, rather than a lane dominance item with AS/AR.

Oberic 11-06-2012 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xypherous (Hozzászólás 31101163)

That said, in the jungle, attack speed / armor is really appealing on pretty much everyone who jungles - So if an item were to be made along these stat lines, the large bulk of the item's gold value would probably go towards being jungle-related to help autoattack bruisers transition better into the mid / late game, rather than a lane dominance item with AS/AR.

You are describing Bloodrazor.

Just buff that.

Xypherous 11-06-2012 12:37 AM

Quote:

You are describing Bloodrazor.

Just buff that.
I'd rather not. MBR is trying to do too many things at once to be good. A raw buff doesn't help when it's main difficulty is it has both too many stats and also can't be cheap because then it competes with Wriggle's. While it's probably a very good idea to have an item compete with Wriggle's lantern - it probably doesn't actually help all that much to be in the exact same line as Wriggle's.

MBR's main problem is that it effectively kills itself due to always being sub-optimal in some regard, no matter who builds it - outside of Warwick, I suppose. You could raw buff it until the sub-optimality parts go away by sheer virtue of being overpowered but I don't think you've solved anything there - you've just kind of made it outshine a bunch of other items, unfortunately because it's still not performing a new niche, just three old ones sub-optimally.

Oberic 11-06-2012 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xypherous (Hozzászólás 31101274)
I'd rather not. MBR is trying to do too many things at once to be good. A raw buff doesn't help when it's main difficulty is it has both too many stats and also can't be cheap because then it competes with Wriggle's. While it's probably a very good idea to have an item compete with Wriggle's lantern - it probably doesn't actually help all that much to be in the exact same line as Wriggle's.

MBR's main problem is that it effectively kills itself due to always being sub-optimal in some regard, no matter who builds it - outside of Warwick, I suppose. You could raw buff it until the sub-optimality parts go away by sheer virtue of being overpowered but I don't think you've solved anything there - you've just kind of made it outshine a bunch of other items, unfortunately because it's still not performing a new niche, just three old ones sub-optimally.

Good points.
Though by buffs I was thinking along the lines of a few more points of armor (and nothing else). The thing already does absurdly good damage, that part doesn't need buffed.

Ginga 11-06-2012 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xypherous (Hozzászólás 31101163)
AS/AR is kind of a niche item primarily for bruisers who can autoattack. There isn't a whole lot of classes that would actually like such a stat.

So essentially, you'd be making an item for Lee Sin/Udyr/Shyv/Irelia - which immediately jumps at the question of 'Do they actually need this item?'

Currently, I'm at the opinion that while yes, there is a void here - it's probably an okay void to have unless we're somehow trying to make early armor viable on AD carries.

That said, in the jungle, attack speed / armor is really appealing on pretty much everyone who jungles - So if an item were to be made along these stat lines, the large bulk of the item's gold value would probably go towards being jungle-related to help autoattack bruisers transition better into the mid / late game, rather than a lane dominance item with AS/AR.

Maybe I'm not entirely getting where you stand on this since you sound like you're kinda back and forth on the item's worth, but is an item being niche good or bad?


Manamune is good exclusively on Yorick and Blitzcrank, that's probably the niche-est item in the game but you appear to be perfectly happy with the item considering it's been untouched for so long. 2/106 champions

Spirit Visage is pretty much only good on Mundo, and maybe Swain or Vlad. 1-3/106 champions

Tiamat is good exclusively on Twitch. It's usefulness is debatable on Fiora and Shyvanna. 1/106 champion

Ionic Spark only exists for split pushing Shen.


Speaking of which...Ionic Spark should totally be an armour equivalent of Wit's End.

Xypherous 11-06-2012 01:24 AM

An item being niche is more often a bad thing that a good thing - unless the niche is readily identifiable at first glance - then the niche is okay. It's about how readily the niche communicates itself.

For example, Spirit Visage is a niche item built to cater characters with strong self-healing effects. That's probably fine as any character can look at that and go 'Well, no self-heals here, I can ignore that.'

Ionic Spark, however, is not a good niche item to have, mostly because it looks like a good item. It feels like a good item. And then 95% of the time, you're doing it wrong if you buy it.


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