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-   -   Take Smite on Ryze (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2672457)

Epictues 10-12-2012 10:41 PM

Take Smite on Ryze
 
Ryze has a slow early game and even some possible mana problems early on.

I max summoning mastery. So I get a 15% cooldown reduction on my summoner spells. I take the +10gold for each smite used.

I take +6% spellvamp quints.



This lets me powerfarm early game, while getting extra gold. It also gives me sustain, with the spell vamp. Everytime I smite something its a nice heal. The mana saved at early game lets me get an extra 8 minion kills in the first 7 minutes. Which is like +300gold in the first 7minutes.

Smite also makes farming wraiths super easy for ryze, as well as stealing blue buffs, and killing dragon fast.





So next time Epic joins your game with a smite Ryze. Dont QQ and rage, instead embrace the genius.

ty

PeacefulNomad 10-12-2012 11:09 PM

I wouldn't call it genius but I wont bash it till I see it. I just think you would get the same results if you start with a mana crystal and call for an early to get the other mid out of lane and let you farm easily. But im willing to embrace change! lol

Lethadind 10-12-2012 11:25 PM

Looking at your match history of the last 8 games you've played with Ryze I'd say this is not at all viable. We're looking at combined stats of 25/53/45 (1.32:1 KDA if you want to look at it that way) over 8 games, with about 5 cs/minute (19 cs is available every 1.5 minutes, you're grabbing 7.5). Try autoattacking to save mana and getting that extra gold through igniting the enemy champ for a kill (in this case worth 30 "smitten" minions).

People shouldn't be raging, but then again you shouldn't be getting smite on Ryze. Let the jungler control Dragon and Baron.

Epictues 10-13-2012 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethadind (Hozzászólás 30167018)
Looking at your match history of the last 8 games you've played with Ryze I'd say this is not at all viable. We're looking at combined stats of 25/53/45 (1.32:1 KDA if you want to look at it that way) over 8 games, with about 5 cs/minute (19 cs is available every 1.5 minutes, you're grabbing 7.5). Try autoattacking to save mana and getting that extra gold through igniting the enemy champ for a kill (in this case worth 30 "smitten" minions).

People shouldn't be raging, but then again you shouldn't be getting smite on Ryze. Let the jungler control Dragon and Baron.



true I went 3 wins and 5 loses as Ryze in my last 10 ranked games.

Veetine the top ranked elo player in the world has gone 0 wins and 2 loses as Ezreal using triforce, in his last 10 ranked games. This does not mean triforce on Ezreal is bad.


you need to go to logic school.



edit: also a keypoint to the post was people raging, QQing and throwing the game when they see something they are not familiar with. If you use a different build in solo q, about 20% of your games are going to be thrown by a team mate raging. So this statistic needs to be taken into consideration.

Lethadind 10-13-2012 12:27 PM

Veetine also went 13/12/15 in those two matches, with about 7.5 cs/minute. I never mentioned your losses, I mentioned your KDR and your cs. Of those 8 games you played, you carried in one of them. One.

My point is that Ryze does not need smite, I'm not being close-minded, I'm providing simple reasons why it's ineffective. You are hanging on to an idea that you had that seemed logical to you, and no matter how many people point out how ineffective it is, you keep hanging on because you want to be right.

Sorry to say this, but you aren't. Ryze doesn't need Smite, Ignite provides more gold than Smite ever could, and the measly amount of Spell Vamp (9% with masteries and runes) provides you with 40 health returned at levels 1-4ish every 70 seconds. This means a grand total of about 80-120 health by the time it's completely ineffective to be using it for lane-sustain. Less than a health potion. And by the way you're forgoing important masteries and even runes to get this random sustain when you could instead be focusing one of the trees to grab either more health or more damage output. Your argument about controlling dragon and Baron is bunk because the jungler already has smite, you'd just be competing over who gets the objective kill. One extra cs every 70 seconds is not "powerfarming." In a standard 40ish minute game, you can use Smite a MAXIMUM of 33 times. If we assume that all 33 times it was used when there would be no other way to grab the cs (cooldowns or you are autoattacking another minion and the one you smite is about to die if you don't smite it), and assuming +10g per use, this gives you a grand total of about 1000 extra gold, MAXIMUM, that you can get. That's 3 kills secured with ignite, which is quite common in a game. Also, the 33 times are unrealistic, and it'll be more like 10 anyway, which is about 550 gold (33*10g + 10*22g). Two kills. This isn't taking into consideration all the cs, kills, objectives and whatnot that you've potentially lost due to ineffective runes and masteries, this is purely "best case scenario."

If people raging about your build is causing you to lose games, then why are you stubbornly continuing to do it? People aren't going to change, they'll continue to rage. THAT alone should be enough to tell you that you should stop. Regardless of whether it's a "revolutionary" idea or not if it's causing you to lose games, then why continue with it?

I'm not saying "you can't do well with Smite on Ryze." I hear your argument and you're right. It does provide lane sustain. It does give you a small edge on creep control in the lane and it can help with the objectives if, say, your jungler is dead. What I'm saying, though, is that you can do better sticking to a standard tried-and-true method on Ryze. Smite is for jungling, it's wasted in lane, everyone knows this.

Epictues 10-13-2012 01:46 PM

you arent providing any substance in your argument.

-you are saying you are not mentioning match history as part of the argument, but then u go and mention match history. Ive been about a 50% win ryze player; I probably can get that ryze win rate up to about 58% with a lil more practice on Ryze. Doesnt make mean a certain item set is no good.

-youre saying everyone is explaining to me how it sucks, which isnt an argument and in addition you are the only one in this thread trying to argue that it sucks.

- you say it heals for 40 every 70seconds, thats not true. It heals for 50 health @ level 4 every 59seconds. Which can keep you in lane a little longer; especially with Ryzes health regen, and spell vamp on his other spells.

-
Quote:

Sorry to say this, but you aren't. Ryze doesn't need Smite, Ignite provides more gold than Smite ever could
wheres the substance. you provide no effective argument here. You go on to say that you can smite every 70seconds, which is not true. Its every 59seconds because a lot of Ryzes go summoner tree.

If I go up to the enemies wraiths at lvl 1 and smite the large wraith. thats what 35gold + 10gold from smite to me; and - 35gold to the enemy jungler. Effectively an 80gold swing + XP ,before the game has even really started.

Or maybe I smite the blue for my jungler, so he can do his first camps easy, doesnt have to go back to heal and do an earlier gank?

- you say you can use auto attacks to finish off minions cs, sure but u can also use smite too.
If youre pro and get every single minion cs in lane, then sure it might not help as much. But for most solo elo players dont get every last cs hit. So those times when Ryze would use a spell to last hit cs a minion he can use smite instead. in the first 6minutes in lane, when Ryze is off to a slow start, thats 6 saved spells.

-you say it doesnt help kill dragon? At lvl 6 being able to solo dragon fairly fast with the jungler is an added plus; or being able to quickly steal the enemies blue.

sure ignite is fine and probably preffered by most. but Ryze doesnt really benefit from the ability boost on its cooldown and his q is on such a short cooldown anyways it doesnt really pay off damage wise until later levels. + Ryze shouldnt be looking to dominate super early game anyways. The enemy hits u with a smite early game. u heal it back up with 2 smites.

Lethadind 10-13-2012 01:53 PM

/facepalm

You're clearly stuck on thinking this is a good idea. You're ignoring everything I'm saying, and everything everyone is saying to you in game. You have several downvotes here.

Here's the facts:

You've played 8 games with "smite Ryze."

You've lost 5 of them.

You've carried in only one of them. That means YOU were a factor in the game ONCE in EIGHT times. Those other two wins you were carried by someone else on your team.

You get people who flame (you said this yourself) and throw the game. This is YOUR fault because YOU are doing something that PROVOKES a troll to actually TROLL. It is completely within your ability to control that aspect of the troll, by simply not getting smite on Ryze.

But keep doing it. Keep losing. Keep feeding the enemy team with low cs and nothing to shoot for as far as kills and assists go, far be it for me to try to help you see the light.

Mambazo 10-13-2012 02:53 PM

There really aren't new ideas to be had in League.

Trust me, people have thought of every hare-brained idea like this already, tried it, and realize it was not good. You are not an innovator. You are just bad.

futuresight23 10-13-2012 03:18 PM

I think you lose a lot from not having the 10% spell pen from the offensive side of the tree. Not certain on the math but I would imagine that the damage you lose out on when opening up on targets in teamfights is not worth the income from the smite mastery.

Epictues 10-13-2012 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethadind (Hozzászólás 30181071)
/facepalm

You're clearly stuck on thinking this is a good idea. You're ignoring everything I'm saying, and everything everyone is saying to you in game. You have several downvotes here.

Here's the facts:You've played 8 games with "smite Ryze."

You've lost 5 of them.


You've carried in only one of them. That means YOU were a factor in the game ONCE in EIGHT times. Those other two wins you were carried by someone else on your team.

You get people who flame (you said this yourself) and throw the game. This is YOUR fault because YOU are doing something that PROVOKES a troll to actually TROLL. It is completely within your ability to control that aspect of the troll, by simply not getting smite on Ryze.

But keep doing it. Keep losing. Keep feeding the enemy team with low cs and nothing to shoot for as far as kills and assists go, far be it for me to try to help you see the light.

lol youre so simple minded.

-you say everyone in game is telling me its a bad idea, lol, thats not an argument, and you dont know wht people are saying in game lol. dumb


-heres the facts im exactly 50% in elo games with Ryze. The best player in the world can be 50% with some champs in elo, that doesnt mean the build is bad. dumb

- You are defending people who QQ, rage, quit and throw games because they dont like someones choice of SUMMONER spell. Im giving people the reasons behind smite on ryze so they dont QQ so hard. again dumb on your part.



youre too slow in the head. youre probably qqing because in fact you are one of the dumbasses who ragequit when someoen chooses a summoner spell that you havent memorized as being part of the meta.

qq mroe until u actually get something substantial



Quote:

I think you lose a lot from not having the 10% spell pen from the offensive side of the tree. Not certain on the math but I would imagine that the damage you lose out on when opening up on targets in teamfights is not worth the income from the smite mastery.
I think Ryze works better off flat magic penetration. % spell penatration works after flat magic pen. I think. So its bonus is pretty limited with Ryzes magic penetration passive on his spells imo


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