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-   -   Why support and AD carry bottom lane? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2582169)

Epictues 09-16-2012 06:46 AM

Why support and AD carry bottom lane?
 
anyone actually think of this, or just copying the meta of the pros?

Logic dictates that its very very unlikely that pro meta would be the same as the pub meta.


Its not like I dont see any reasons for it, but a top laner/jungler can usually destroy a carry or a support with ease.

play 3vs3. (Jax, Jayce and Xin vs a support, AD carry and anyone else).... and the top laners will melt face. At what point does it become better to have a support and AD carry?

Slanderdota 09-16-2012 06:55 AM

The limiting factors of the games mechanics stifle creativity and change.

Magus Crow 09-16-2012 07:03 AM

If a non-ranged top laner is melting the face of an ADC the ADC is doing a poor job with their kite skills. Yeah... the top laner should melt the ADC if they ever get to him but it should be an easy case of run and shoot and disengauge for the ADC. That and you should get harassed every single time you think about going for a last hit.

Edit: Its kinda like playing against Kennen top really.

Epictues 09-16-2012 09:35 AM

if a ranged adc will kite a top lane brute all day, how come on twisted treeline, top lane brutes(jax,jayce,xin,wukong, darius) melt the adc face all day?

is it because once u add a support, the support can push the top laner off the adc?

Togekiss24 09-16-2012 12:05 PM

The reason AD/support are bot lane is because that's the lane closest to dragon. Alongside the jungler (in some cases), the ADC has the DPS needed to take out the dragon at a relatively fast rate. In addition, most ADCs are relatively squishy and lack good escape methods, which is a bad quality to have for a lane as lengthy as bottom. That's why there are support champions there to help protect them or help them win the lane.

People don't necessarily follow it because their "meta-sheep" its because it makes sense and it works.

Epictues 09-16-2012 02:44 PM

Quote:

People don't necessarily follow it because their "meta-sheep" its because it makes sense and it works.
thats a waste of space sentence. people dont necessarily follow it because they arent "meta sheep" either.

corki, graves, caitlin, vayne ect dont have better dps than xin, jax, wukong and other top laners. so your point doesnt make sense as a good dragon kill.

and 1 support and 1 damage dealer dont do more damage than 2 damage dealers.



a better answer for adc + support bottom lane, is that adc are item dependent and supports are really just used for their spells. so they let the top lane powerhouse get all the gold and xp for himself; meanwhile on bottom lane they share xp, but the support lets the ADC get all the gold, because ADC are item dependent, while supports like I said earlier dont rely on items. + the bottom lane is bigger and closer to dragon and blue so its better to have 2 there than 2 on top

Sorority Sona 09-16-2012 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epictues (Hozzászólás 29333315)
and 1 support and 1 damage dealer dont do more damage than 2 damage dealers.

That isn't the point, the point is most ADC have limited self sustain and the support helps them with that. On top of this, the support (good support) will not be stealing minion kills. Two damage heroes will be splitting kills, and as such, gold. After the first back in a lane with a support + ADC vs. 2 damage, the ADC will have a massive harass advantage, plus with the lockdown of most support will easily take kills. The burst from two DPS classes can be high but a good ADC + Support will just zone the lane and keep it near the tower, farming to their hearts content.

This leads to a fed ADC, and if you've played against any, a lot of fed ADC will destroy through mid and late game.

FaerellG 09-17-2012 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epictues (Hozzászólás 29333315)
and 1 support and 1 damage dealer dont do more damage than 2 damage dealers.

While that may be correct at end-game with full builds, you're not considering power scaling throughout the game.

Carries need items to get that crazy damage in the mid-late game, there are only 4 revenue streams for gold income. 3 lanes and the jungle.

Many carries aren't efficient at clearing the jungle. You can't have carries in every lane, you need some tanky people to soak damage and initiate, so really you only have 2 lanes for carries.

The current strategy is to put them in mid and bot(with support).
Mid because it's a short distance between towers and a short walk back to lane if you get killed.
Bot has 2 because it's closer to dragon so you get better early game dragon control with 2 champions near by than you would with only 1 champion there.
Because top is a solo lane, you need a champion that can survive ganks well, so you want someone tanky. Your bruiser or tank usually goes up there.
So that leaves a carry and a support to go bottom.

So, Mid and Bot have the carries.
Carries need 2 things to become stronger: levels and items/gold.
AD carries scale pretty exclusively with items as they just want to auto attack all day for max damage output, their abilities are less important than an AP carry.
So the Midlane will level faster due to it being a solo lane. AP carry goes mid
AD carry goes bot since they care less about the levels.
The support doesn't really need gold as much since they're used for heals, CC, and auras.

So to address the quoted text, if you dump 2 of your ADs in bot lane, each of them won't be as fed as an AD+Support. The AD who has a support will have that Infinity Edge way faster than either of the other 2 ADs. And having that big ticket item early (with a support who can CC and heal) will beat out 2 under-farmed ADs any day of the week.
Consequently, if the duo-AD composition decides to let 1 AD farm and the other to hold off, then the one holding off is going to be virtually useless because an under-fed AD is pretty much the definition of useless in this game.

bob000 09-17-2012 06:03 AM

Twisted Treeline games are shorter. Anything considered lategame is gonna suck on TT.

Jesot 09-17-2012 10:36 AM

Why not duo mid? Gives support more access to other lanes and warding would be new easily effective. Once mid tower is down, the carry could roam our switch lanes to allow someone else to roam.


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