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-   -   The problem with AD Carries in Dominion (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2569189)

Secretnir 09-12-2012 10:39 PM

The problem with AD Carries in Dominion
 
Excluding Ezreal of course, who is generally OP everywhere.

Basically I feel like you can't run them/play them in a comp unless the rest of the comp happens (by accident or design) to be people who can go in and do all the disruption for the carry to not get focused. I.e. if your team is Nautilus, Blitzcrank, and Xin Zhao or something for the top lineup then it can often work.

But talking solo pub/solo queue/random game type situations.... this feels like the problem with AD carries to me:

You can't build damage, sustain, attack speed, survivability and armor mitigation. Or at least you can't build enough of all of the above to become effective.

You can go straight damage and you literally blow up in 1.3 seconds when Jax or Xin Zhao or Diana jump at you. You can go "economical" and get both damage and sustain through sanguine and spend the rest on survivability and/or attack speed, but then you kill yourself attacking anyone with thornmail (every rammus, malphite, shen etc. in the game will have it, and most of the smart bruisers will too). You can go damage, sustain and mitigation but then you're trying to slap on any survival at all as a 4th or 5th item at the earliest. (You probably won't get there.)

I dunno am I missing something or is there some different, special way to build carries in Dominion that magically works? I main them in SR but other than when I say "alright I'll troll a game and not care if I lose", I generally don't dare to play one in Dominion. Carries look great when the team generally is sorta face stomping anyhow, but when "every man counts" it just feels like especially after the gold nerfs, there's no way for you to get everything you need. Survivability items are definitely a lot more important in Dominion than SR for AD carries because fights are smaller and you can't just hide behind a tank and two bruisers most of the time, but if you prioritize this 'enough' it just feels like you don't do enough damage to justify being a carry and not Jax or Xin or Wukong or something.

Demonite10 09-12-2012 10:54 PM

The problem with AD carries in Dom is that they're supposed to be carried early game then carry the team lategame. Unless the game gets to lategame, AD carries won't carry jack. That's why any team that picks 2 or more AD carries usually doesn't beat a team that is more evenly balanced. That's not to say a team with Tryndamere and Corki will fail 100% of the time...but having more than 1 person without early game power seriously squashes your chances of winning.

FDru 09-12-2012 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aroyok (Hozzászólás 29199940)
The problem with AD carries in Dom is that they're supposed to be carried early game then carry the team lategame. Unless the game gets to lategame, AD carries won't carry jack. That's why any team that picks 2 or more AD carries usually doesn't beat a team that is more evenly balanced. That's not to say a team with Tryndamere and Corki will fail 100% of the time...but having more than 1 person without early game power seriously squashes your chances of winning.

I'd argue AD carries are weakest mid-game, when players are starting to get defensive items but there's no way to have enough items to counter it yet. AD casters with good base damage who can afford to rush LWs tend to outdamage actual carries mid-game. In early fights, AD carries do most of the damage (except for champs with lots of AOE) and are harder to deal with.

Melee carries are a special case though; they have no place in Dominion at all. There's a reason you don't see Trynd, Fiora, AD Yi or AD Sion nearly ever.

MyDeadGrandma 09-12-2012 11:47 PM

They did fine bot lane when dominion first came out, thanks to the passive gold gain. It was extremely easy on heroes like Kog and Siv to become significant threats in their own right finishing 6 full item slots by 20 minutes.

Secretnir 09-13-2012 12:43 AM

So from these responses, is the general consensus basically "carries cannot get to where they need to be since they nerfed the gold gain"?

Phourc 09-13-2012 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Secretnir (Hozzászólás 29201876)
So from these responses, is the general consensus basically "carries cannot get to where they need to be since they nerfed the gold gain"?

Carries need to play a bit more intelligently, as they will never be as ridiculously gold-lead as in SR but once they hit late game they're monstrous in any mode due to their five-way scaling.

(By which I mean Attack Damage, Armor Pen, Attack Speed, Crit Chance and Crit Damage - Each increases the benefit gained from the other four stats, making pure carries far and away the best damage you can find.)

LunarisDream 09-13-2012 01:20 AM

Caitlyn is amazing for defending points due to her trap, and Kog can siege extremely well as either AD or AP, but I agree with your points. ADCs just aren't worthwhile on Dominion besides Ezreal, who can siege, defend, and interrupt from a distance as well as do tons of damage.

Aparkhurst 09-13-2012 03:24 AM

The problem with AD carries (and similarly squishy AP champs) is the amount of herp-derp assassins/bruisers who happen to do well against them in an unorganized environment.

Ryzol Ryzo Ryz R 09-13-2012 05:21 AM

I play ADC in solo queue and it's not that bad. However, I only play Vayne or Kog'Maw because they do a bunch of damage, and don't need a last whisper. The problem with Vayne is if your team is dead you can't do anything but farm. However, that's true of most champions. Kog'Maw being able to safely stall a point is a big plus along with him out ranging most gap closers.

If you pick engagements carefully, avoid being bush whacked, and teamfight well ADCs work. If you are having trouble with early/midgame strength you can buy a Lightbringer or Black Cleaver. These items are very gold efficient, but will delay your lategame.

Duelpower has a nice ADC stream. Look through some of his videos to see how he plays. http://www.twitch.tv/duelpower

GrignardTS 09-13-2012 05:44 AM

An extremely well played Caityln, Ashe, or Corki is a sight to see IMO.

ADCs definitively are the weakest champion type on this map, Ezreal aside since he's the most AD Caster-like, but I wouldn't say its a problem. More like the play style they're built around isn't supported.


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