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-   -   The jungler whao got all the kills, isn't he supposed to be blamed? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2493724)

Luxiere 08-19-2012 05:17 PM

The jungler whao got all the kills, isn't he supposed to be blamed?
 
Hey there. I posted this thread because of curiosity and I just don't get why our mid was to be blamed of everything

Here's what happened:

While I was supporting bot, I've noticed our Jungler,Alistar and our mid, Ryze, were in a fight. Basically because our jungler got all the kills, and he kept pushing the lane. Our Ryze got outfarmed massively, and mid game, he was 3/6 giving most kills to Orianna, the enemy mid. Ryze says this was all the junglers fault pushing lane and getting all his kills, but our team said that it isn't and blamed him for the loss of the game.

What I'm wondering is why was Ryze to be blamed? He hadn't get any kill until near 17min while our Jungler had around 4-5. He even asked to not push but the jungler did. Orianna roamed around and got kills from Top, and most on Ryze because she outleveled him like a beast.

Who caused the game?

LogicalTautology 08-19-2012 05:39 PM

People *always* blame the jungler.

Treza 08-19-2012 05:42 PM

well you gave some details but they dont really shed enough light to the situation to make an accurate assumption. maybe alistar fell behind early and needed a few minions to get back in it? maybe oriana was mia and alistar was pushing to turret to punish her roaming..

as far as the team goes, people always blame the person with the worst k/d ratio.. ive been called bad by bottom lanes who are 2/0 with 50 cs while im sitting mid 0/1 with 200. people have adapted a sort of.. "call of duty" method of accessing quality of play

in my opinion, anyone playing well should never reach 6 deaths.. ive played i think 70 or 80 ranked games now and although thats not a ton of games, my average amount of deaths per game is just 2 compared to most people i look at who have 4+ sometimes even 6 or 7. and usually not too many more kills either

if ryze had 6 deaths it sounds a lot to me like he was engaging orianna when he shouldnt have been, dying/getting caught, and then blaming the jungler like most average mids do. its very easy for someone to blame someone else for their mistakes rather than take responsibility for their own actions

my analysis: its a team game so in some ways, alistar was partially at fault, but ryze was obviously not picking his opportunities wisely so id call it 80/20 ryze's fault.
alistar could have potentially helped the situation by recognizing middle lane was struggling, but at the same time its not always easy to help the lanes that need it depending on variables like their opposition, minion positioning, jungle status, pressing events such as dragon, bottom lane ganks, etc

LastStaX 08-19-2012 05:43 PM

after a successful gank the jungler should help the laner push the wave to the tower, to deny farm to the enemy lane. if the ryze was falling behind in farm then he is either bad at csing or the Orianna is farming jungle camps.

Treza 08-19-2012 05:50 PM

also ryze isnt the greatest farmer early on from what ive seen. so it could have just been a case of "thats just the way it is"

some mids might recognize a bad farming champion and just constantly auto attack and spam skills to push you to your turret so you lose cs. if they ward well or your jungler is focusing his time elsewhere or playing a more passive game, it can sometimes be effective

LogicalTautology 08-19-2012 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treza (Hozzászólás 28426686)
in my opinion, anyone playing well should never reach 6 deaths.. ive played i think 70 or 80 ranked games now and although thats not a ton of games, my average amount of deaths per game is just 2 compared to most people i look at who have 4+ sometimes even 6 or 7. and usually not too many more kills either

I assume you're not including tanks in that?

Treza 08-19-2012 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalTautology (Hozzászólás 28428270)
I assume you're not including tanks in that?

a tanks job isnt to run in and die..

although my statement is still not 100% accurate because the enemy team could just be playing better causing you to get like 6 deaths

ragnaraq 08-19-2012 07:07 PM

Ryze is probably at fault here, but if I were alistar, I would definitely give ryze most the kills. I don't know enough to judge it.

MoreMedz 08-19-2012 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luxiere (Hozzászólás 28425967)
Our Ryze got outfarmed massively, and mid game, he was 3/6 giving most kills to Orianna, the enemy mid.

If I have to guess, that's where the problem is. A jungler can gank overextended enemies, but no jungler can freeze the mid's lane for the mid and help the mid get CS. Either Ryze was playing poorly at last-hitting, or that he did not get gp items to help him keep up with the farm.

As for the 3/6 KD, it suggests that he might need to work on his positioning a bit better. This is hard to tell however without knowing his assist scores as well.

Anyway, a jungler who gets kills in the course of performing his role can hardly be blamed, after all, if someone died from it and it is the enemy, he must have done something right.

Skilltestingman 08-19-2012 08:13 PM

Oh he ganks for u and u still find a problem.

You don't deserve ganks period


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