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-   -   Indisputable explanation as to why TT is broken, I challenge you to prove me wrong (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2491877)

BashDaddy 08-19-2012 02:14 AM

Indisputable explanation as to why TT is broken, I challenge you to prove me wrong
Many people do not know how to play TT, I imagine the ones that read this will however know that if you cannot push the final tower killing the inhibitors is detrimental as your lane will constantly push giving them freefarm.

So smart people will not kill the inhibitors unless they can win the game at the same time. At some point you must of course push the base, at which point the enemy team knowing you will beat them in a teamfight will likely stay back while you kill the inhibitor as a necessity. Now you are forced to dive the final tower if you wish to kill it as the enemy team will simply pull the minions into the laser/ farm from the laser.

I have lost too many games playing against this 'tactic' If you have some form of adc you can kill it easier, but that is not usually the case. The point is that too many games of this sort are lost because you are forced to dive the final tower to kill at, at which point a teamfight brakes out and you often lose.

This is easily the biggest problem with TT. picking strong champs is annoying to play against if done en mass i.e Singed, WW, Rammus, Amumu, Malphite etc but that is fair. No one is stopping you from doing this if you wish. Pulling minions into the laser cannot be what Riot intended when making the map, minions are meant to push towers and finally the final structure. The idea you could be forced to dive a tower even though the lane is pushed to the tower is just simply dirty. It is essentially bug abuse, and if you do it you should be banned for life.

The real injustice comes from the fact while being better than players who use this tactic your skill is made largely irrelevant. As soon as you get close to victory teams just essentially stop playing the game. They stay in their base and prolong the game. One Team just runs around free farming while the other just waits in their base. It is a bad joke and that Riot has done nothing about it is a disgrace. Why make a game mode if you allow people to abuse a bug that destroys the mode.

Eryn 08-19-2012 02:28 AM

Reading your post, you sound really mad.

Banned for life? Come on. I think you should take a breather and learn that a win isn't a win unless your screen says victory.

If the other team turtles and you were unable to beat them, you deserved the loss.

Likewise, if you turtle and manage to come back and win the game, you deserve to win.

If turtling was such a broken strategy that those who use it negate skill non-necessity, and enforce a loss on their opponents, then you'll have to explain to me how we have so many teams with 90%+ win rate. Turtling, being the simple strategy that it is, if as broken as you proclaim it, would make having a win ratio over 60% theoretically impossible.

BashDaddy 08-19-2012 02:49 AM

I'm not sure you understand, obviously not every team can turtle to victory, but then I didn't say that every team who pushes base first indeed ends up losing to a turtle strategy. It happens some of the time, but happening at all is a crime.

Turtling is a legitimate strategy, but note that I didn't use the word because its not turtling that is the problem it's the fact that even if teams want to push they can't because diving the tower is IN SOME GAMES, NOT ALL not possible. It makes turtling too easy. You can't turtle 5s in the same way I am describing as you can just kill the towers and then you win a teamfight. Turtling in 3s is completely different and lacks any skill. Furthermore the tower has regen and in order to try push it you have to destroy the inhibitor meaning they can freefarm that lane if you fail to win the game on that attempt.

It really comes down to whether you think it is fair to pull all of the minions that push the final tower into the laser. If you think it's fair that you can stay in your base, essentially not playing LoL and force the opposing team to dive your tower you are insane. It cannot be that Riot intended that you can pull all of the minions into the laser, it is so out of sync with the idea that lanes push to the final building, which is of course what they do if they are not pulled by champs.

OnlyBotLane 08-19-2012 05:28 AM

Turtling happens in SR too. They have Baron? Let us wait it out at their towers because otherwise we will lose.

Koldheartedjsp 08-19-2012 05:30 AM

i think you suck and should drink some of the stuff under the sink

Judas Priest 08-19-2012 07:08 AM

You are right. Destroying an enemy's building (inhibitor) shouldn't be a punishable thing, you should be rewarded to do it. Letting the inhibitors there until you can finish the game is just the way LoL community found out to bypass this map flaw, but I'm sure it wasn't Riot's initial intent. They should really fix this map because when the turtle strategie is put into action, the match gets extremely boring for both teams.

Uncle Jellyfish 08-19-2012 07:23 AM

Would a simple fix to this problem be to just make it so the fountain laser doesn't hit minions, only champions?

Judas Priest 08-19-2012 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by Uncle Jellyfish (Hozzászólás 28411172)
Would a simple fix to this problem be to just make it so the fountain laser doesn't hit minions, only champions?

No, the purpose of the altar laser is to protect champions from whatever is attacking them. Besides, it does not solve the "free farming" problem.

To fix this map the base should be enlarged, so it would be harder to bait and to turtle -> heal -> turtle.

WillWW 08-19-2012 10:14 AM

1. You are assuming it's broken because youre assuming it was not intended to be this way.

2. You believe using the super turret is a glitch. I consider it to be a form of turret hugging. Besides, most of the time, youre not able to last hit minions anyway, so who cares. You can kite minions all around the map if youre skilled enough.

3. Why does everyone compare tt to sr? Just because theyre both the same types of maps doesn't mean they have the same strategies.

4. And you can keep them from turtling after you take out the inhibitor, you just have to leave it up when it respawns again. While you prepare to take out the main turret.

I'm not saying I proved you wrong, just saying that you didn't real prove yourself right.

BashDaddy 08-21-2012 11:44 PM

1. It seems quite obvious to that it was not intended that you had to dive the final tower, think about it.

2. Obviously the super turret is not a glitch, I never said it was, but the idea that you can pull all of the minions into the laser forcing the other team to dive the tower is bug abuse.

3. The comparison to SR is relevant because it highlights how you cannot camp at your final towers in the same way as TT. In TT you have to dive the tower as they will pull minions whereas in SR the minions reach the towers.

4. Yes I realize you should not attack the inhibitors, its essentially the first thing I wrote. Please learn to read. This doesn't change the fact you have to kill the inhibitors before you push the final tower, which you have to dive. Nothing in your fourth point is even relevant to what I said.

5. You are a moron, the only way you could prove me wrong is if you someone made some good argument as to why it seems fair in the scheme of a LoL game to prolong a game making it boring by abusing a bug that was definitely never intended.

That's what it comes down to. Is it fair that teams are forced to dive the final tower in order to kill it, even with both lanes pushed to base? If you say yes you should really stop playing LoL.

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