League of Legends Community

League of Legends Community (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/index.php)
-   Dominion (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=43)
-   -   Nocturne is weak in dominion (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2482807)

reticuli 08-16-2012 12:08 PM

Nocturne is weak in dominion
 
I bought Nocturne thinking he'd be great, but I was wrong.

Q - This barely does any damage at all, and it doesn't even give you enough move speed to chase people like designed. It is also conceptually flawed, for you need to use it for added damage, yet in a 1v1 people generally fight and then flee if they feel they're losing. The cooldown is so high that once they flee, you can't use it again to help you chase. So when do you use it?! :S

W - This isn't as useful as it is in SR. It's basically the same thing as Sivir's spell except even less useful for its temporary AS instead of mana. In dominion team fights, how can you possibly know when to pop this without guessing? People target so randomly, all you can do is guess, and if you're right, you get AS. Big deal.

E - This is a cool spell, but it is also flawed. Often times the champion who is feared runs directly away from you, completely defeating the purpose of what you're trying to do. For example, you're defending a point, someone jumps you and tanks the turrent, but you fear them away from the point and they are no longer being hit by the turret. Or, you're chasing, and they get feared running away from you and actually get away. Fear needs to be less random so I can actually use it strategically. Besides, this is just another skill that doesn't do damage.

R - His ultimate is so bad. The range is pathetic, even on a map like Dominion. Rank 1 is a joke, people often can see you when you're ulting you have to do it so close. Also, if someone is capping your point and you ult, they always have enough time to run away before you get there. I'm pretty sure the global fog of war everyone gets is more of a deterrent to Nocturne than anybody else. The damage on his ult is also completely pathetic, making you save it only to get around, due to its extremely extremely high cool down.

Noc basically has 4 skills that barely do any damage and serve more as utility. He is an assassin, yet I find nearly every champion on the roster to be impossible to 1v1 even at half HP. Noc simply gets blown up upon arrival and has pathetic damage. His kit is too geared towards SR, and he simply blows in dominion.

Suggestions:
Q Lower CD on Q. This will help him do damage in the fight, and be able to chase near the end of the fight by being able to use it again.

W Extend the duration of the shield significantly. Give something more besides just AS.

E Make fear more predictable, and make this spell do actual damage so that noc can use it defensively and still do damage. Right now noc is forced into melee to hurt someone.

R Cooldown is dramatically too long. Needs to be halfed. Also the distance is terrible, it is hard to be disruptive with it on dominion because of the lack of range and CD. Also buff the skill so it actually hurts people! It should be a viable skill in a 1v1 skirmish, right now it is a waste to use in a 1v1.

naotasan 08-16-2012 12:18 PM

He's actually a good bottom when played right. I've seen him carry teams down there.

Panwar 08-16-2012 12:26 PM

I've never had any luck with him. But I've seen some Noc's that have built Sanguine Blade/Phantom Dancer who just tear the hell out of other champions.

Melvear 08-16-2012 12:53 PM

I'll take the time to answer this as it's insanely wrong.

Q serves has a multipurpose tool. It's an aoe nuke with fair damage and range (poke), it's a self AD buff, it's a movement enhancer (speed and unit collision ignore). The cooldown is low enough that you actually can use it twice in a fight, but you need cdr to do so. Luckily, having cdr helps a TON with every single ability Nocturne has. What's more, Q allows you to flee, should you need to. Pop W on top of that, and you can't be CCed, and pop E on a chaser to neutralize him. It's extremely hard to gank nocturne successfully. Oh, almost forgot. 55 free AD? Yes please.

W is, for the most part, a one point wonder. You need it to soak CC, and as a bonus, it boosts your AS (passively, bonus if you actually get hit by a spell). I can't see how you wouldn't think this is a strong ability. If you use it on approach to a target, they either waste an ability on it to pop it and CC you, or wait it out, giving you time to get to them and murder their face. As for timing in team fight, use it when getting into the fray. You'll get hit by something, gaining you AS. If you're lucky, it was something bad, if not, who cares? You're attacking 20-40% faster.

E has the flaw that it's on a delay, meaning it can be escaped. I generally don't care though. If you're duking it out, the enemy won't flee from it, so it'll do it's work. If you're trying to cc someone and they flee, success, you CCed them, just not with the actual ability. The only issue is if it breaks on a chase, but that's honestly not so bad. The damage is magic too, giving you a second type of damage on top of large amounts of AD.

R is amazing. Not only can you close distance with targets, it also negates the enemy team vision. The range on it at rank 1 is pretty short, but at rank 2 and 3, it's very large and allows for very quick reinforcement anywhere on the map. It's also a nuke for a little bit of added burst in duels.

I've played Nocturne bot about 40 times in a row (with a few breaks here and there) and managed a 74% win rate with him. He pushes hard, sustains well, deals incredible damage 1v1, and is very hard to duel once he's got some lifesteal and 40% cdr.

reticuli 08-16-2012 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melvear (Hozzászólás 28317184)
I'll take the time to answer this as it's insanely wrong.

Q serves has a multipurpose tool. It's an aoe nuke with fair damage and range (poke), it's a self AD buff, it's a movement enhancer (speed and unit collision ignore). The cooldown is low enough that you actually can use it twice in a fight, but you need cdr to do so. Luckily, having cdr helps a TON with every single ability Nocturne has. What's more, Q allows you to flee, should you need to. Pop W on top of that, and you can't be CCed, and pop E on a chaser to neutralize him. It's extremely hard to gank nocturne successfully. Oh, almost forgot. 55 free AD? Yes please.

W is, for the most part, a one point wonder. You need it to soak CC, and as a bonus, it boosts your AS (passively, bonus if you actually get hit by a spell). I can't see how you wouldn't think this is a strong ability. If you use it on approach to a target, they either waste an ability on it to pop it and CC you, or wait it out, giving you time to get to them and murder their face. As for timing in team fight, use it when getting into the fray. You'll get hit by something, gaining you AS. If you're lucky, it was something bad, if not, who cares? You're attacking 20-40% faster.

E has the flaw that it's on a delay, meaning it can be escaped. I generally don't care though. If you're duking it out, the enemy won't flee from it, so it'll do it's work. If you're trying to cc someone and they flee, success, you CCed them, just not with the actual ability. The only issue is if it breaks on a chase, but that's honestly not so bad. The damage is magic too, giving you a second type of damage on top of large amounts of AD.

R is amazing. Not only can you close distance with targets, it also negates the enemy team vision. The range on it at rank 1 is pretty short, but at rank 2 and 3, it's very large and allows for very quick reinforcement anywhere on the map. It's also a nuke for a little bit of added burst in duels.

I've played Nocturne bot about 40 times in a row (with a few breaks here and there) and managed a 74% win rate with him. He pushes hard, sustains well, deals incredible damage 1v1, and is very hard to duel once he's got some lifesteal and 40% cdr.

I appreciate your input, but you skirted around all my points, and finished with saying you only play bot. Thanks though.

MMKH 08-16-2012 01:12 PM

He was fine until they nerfed him. His ult CD got a huge CD nerf and his shield duration also took a hit. He is still a decent duelist or ganker though.

Nyx87 08-16-2012 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reticuli (Hozzászólás 28317433)
I appreciate your input, but you skirted around all my points, and finished with saying you only play bot. Thanks though.

Actually, he addressed most, if not all, of your points. He finished by saying "I 1v1 a lot, this is what i assess of Nocturne". I also want to point out how horribly powerful your suggestions are. Nocturne is fine. Also also, if you are top you should be ganking bot whenever your ult is off CD.

Kraogg 08-16-2012 01:43 PM

He is still very strong on the map just under played.

reticuli 08-16-2012 02:11 PM

any suggestions for 1v1 champs? Like what build?

Against Xin, Vlad, I can never win a 1v1 not even close. Same with many other champs, for an assassin I sure do get my ass kicked.

konfetarius 08-16-2012 02:19 PM

People who say Nocturne is weak haven't seen Panzerzs play it.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:10 AM.


(c) 2008 Riot Games Inc