League of Legends Community

League of Legends Community (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/index.php)
-   Guides & Strategy (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Jungle Chogath is top-tier (Another guide by 5HITCOMBO) (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=241509)

5HATCOMBO 09-09-2010 08:06 PM

Jungle Chogath is top-tier (Another guide by 5HITCOMBO)
 
Quote:

[edit 11/1/2010]
Smite/ghost
1/8/21
MS quints, aspd red/blue, flat armor yellow
cloth armor + 2 pots
Wraith jack -> wolves -> your wraiths -> small golems -> bluepill for ruby crystal and another potion if you can afford it, repeat or grab blue buff if they've taken their wraiths.

HoG
Merc
Aegis
Banshee's/finish randuin's depending on MU
situational MR

In some matchups I open Warmog's if my team is raping or if I don't need to bluepill before 3k. It's become a much better item and it costs a reasonable amount while making all of your MR/armor insanely effective. I usually follow Warmogs with Aegis because it's so huge in teamfights and the defensive stats it gives you has great synergy with your 3-4k hp. You'll end up knowing which matchups you can do this in if you play jungle cho enough. Generally vs heavy nuker teams and carries and junglers that don't build madred's (MF/Twitch/Trist/every jungler but WW usually) it's strong/safe.

Anyway the playstyle is evolving constantly so do what you will. [/edit]
[edit]
Quote:

OUTDATED

I've actually been running pure attackspeed runes on him lately because it makes you dominate their jungler so much harder. I also have a second route I take nowadays that I think is better if you want to gimp their jungler over instead of hitting a gank at 4, and it involves starting at their wraiths with smite/rupture/auto and going their wraiths -> wolves -> your wraiths -> stone golems bluepill then their wraiths again if they're up followed by your blue if he's defended it. Pretty much always I'm going cloth + 2 pots + ward (ward their wraith grass at 1:40 when you're doing their wraiths, it's worth it) then boots -> HoG -> Aegis/Rylais depending on MU (used to be RoA until last patch) -> GA -> finish Randuin's or get Banshee's Veil, depending on MU. After that it's just situational items and you're never going to get much further than this unless it's a mad close hour long game. Try to get an Oracles mid- to lategame and keep their wards off the map and their stealthers in check. I've also been running 1/8/21 lately for improved summoner cds, and that comes into play (smite their wraith and it's up in time to smite your wraith or your blue buff).

Anyway yeah, Jungle Cho is awesome nowadays.
[/edit]

Hello everyone, I’m 5HITCOMBO and this is my guide to jungling with chogath. Here are some of my credentials:

I’ve mained Chogath since beta. My other main, also since beta, has been Warwick. For a while in ranked I was running jungle Amumu. Early in the season I ranked up to near 1600 with these three champs and was in the top 500 for a brief period. I was dead-set on only soloing solo queue and a particularly bad swing put me on a 20-30 game loss streak in ranked, dropping me down to 1300. I lost my enthusiasm for ranked, but I’ve recovered it after realizing that my main champ can do everything that any team wants. Now, I’m sitting around 1450 and slowly climbing my way back towards silver rank. I’ve played with and against many of the top players in the game, and I have played Cho successfully in those games as a jungler and in lane, sometimes stomping and sometimes getting stomped.

It has taught me a lot about this game. Here is my main guide to Chogath, if you just want to lane with him: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=148300

Chogath is not the best jungler. He has problems taking dragon early, and you need to be on top of map awareness and wards. Chogath is not the fastest jungler. Many other champs will jungle faster than him in similar situations. It takes a mastery of a lot of basic skills (e.g. map awareness and knowledge of other junglers’ timings/skills/builds) to jungle with Chogath. So why jungle with Chogath?

There are three main reasons to jungle with Chogath.

The first reason is that Chogath is an amazing counter-jungler. At level 3, after taking blue buff, the first thing I do is run into their jungle. If they took a stone golems -> wraiths -> wolves -> blue buff route I take their red. If they went blue buff -> wolves -> wraiths -> stone -> red I usually try to gank them in their jungle as they’re taking red. If they’re doing the same thing as me and running my side, well, I just take their red and gank a lane. I am virtually never in danger when I do this. My hp is always at full and theirs is always less than full. At level 3, with blue buff, I can solo any other jungler 1v1. If the lanes decide to collapse on me, I blow ghost and get into better position while my team comes to back me up. If I find them at red buff and they’re not bush-checking… well, they’re dead and that buff is stolen. If for some reason they didn’t think your team had a jungler and decided to go without smite, they won’t ever be able to control any of their buffs because you will take them first or gank/steal when they do them.

Secondly, Chogath ganks really, really hard, and often times you will get a double-first blood in the 2v2 lane or a first blood and a tower in the 1v1. Basically, your goal is to show up with full hp at level 4 with both buffs and 2 points in rupture. If you land either a rupture or an auto-attack while they are out of position, you score an almost guaranteed kill. If you understand the basics of prioritizing gank targets based on summoner skills and escape options, this is for you.

Thirdly, it’s really, really fun to play Chogath.

Masteries:
1/16/13
1 point in improved smite, max strength of spirit and put one point in all nimbleness-tier. Improved ghost, exp mastery, and max meditation/buff mastery.

Smite/ghost

As for runes, I use my warwick page. Attackspeed quints and marks, dodge seals and CDR/lv glyphs.

Skills:
I’m assuming you know what Chogath’s skills do. If you don’t, see my guide on laning with Chogath (Chogath is top-tier: The definitive guide by 5HITCOMBO http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=148300) and practice the hell out of that first. This is advanced stuff for advanced players.

QEQEQR then R>Q>W>E. The two points in e give you a lot of dps in the jungle and for the first gank. Optionally, you can replace the second point in e with a point in w to help with the initial gank on champions like taric, morgana and sion. Roots and stuns are very threatening to the initial gank, but champions that have them are all generally very slow, so if you manage to hit a silence on them for even a little bit, it’s usually long enough to hit them with what you need to. As usual, you want W maxed for the midgame, because aoe silence is huge, and rupture just has such good damage/cc per point and mana cost that you should always be maxing it first. It’s your bread and butter, especially during the siege phase where you’ll be pushing one lane as a team and generally will not be able to auto-attack other champs without tanking tower hits, which is bad.

Items:
Open cloth armor + 5 hp pots. This is a standard opening on most junglers if you ever decide to randomly try out jungle pantheon or something.

There are two things that you can do with a jungle character that make any sense at all. You can build a madred’s razor and abuse the proc or you can build a couple Heart of Golds. Both of these build from cloth armor, and the damage mitigation at level 1 is huge when you jungle. Chogath isn’t exactly great at abusing the madred’s proc, so we’re going to be building a Heart of Gold or two.

There are three ways that I jungle with Chogath, and it’s really dependent on how the team comps go. You’ll figure it out on your own if you play, but as a general guideline I either A) rush a RoA after the first HoG, B) get a HoG then rush NLR, or C) get 2 HoGs and tank out.

As a general guideline:
If the enemy team has no physical DPS, I rush Rod.
If the enemy team has many squishies that I can come close to two-shotting, I rush NLR.
If my team already has a dedicated initiator and tank, I rush Rod.
If my team doesn’t have a tank or a dedicated initiator, I go HoGs.
If I have a Kogmaw or two squishy, physical dps, I go HoGs.
If my team doesn’t have a caster, I rush Rod or NLR depending on how tanky we are.
If the other team looks dangerous but I still want to hit hard with my spells, I rush Rod.

These are all viable builds and you can’t really go wrong with any of them, but you’ll fare better if you choose the right one. Almost all of this is dictated by the situation and where I expect the game to be in 10-15 minutes.

Jungling:
I’m going to assume that you’ve jungled before with many champions. If you have not, this probably isn’t for you. You should have some sort of feel of each champion’s primary and secondary routes and the timings and vulnerabilities of each. You should know that champions like Udyr, Olaf and Tryndamere will generally be at low HP for the first few levels and that champions like Warwick can open cloth + ward + 2 pots and you need to guard your blue buff from wards. Amumu gets low when he does golem at level 3 if he doesn’t do it at level 1 and Yi starts at wraiths. These are basic things to know when you jungle.

So, with that out of the way, buy your cloth armor and 5 pots and go to the mid brush next to the wraiths. One point in Q, tell your mid champ to kindly not steal any of the exp, and if you can, have someone make sure your blue buff isn’t getting stolen or warded. If you think you have a better level 1 team you can try to do something crazy like have your whole team steal their blue buff. If you have nobody to jungle against… well, you’re going to show the other team why you should always, always have a jungler.

Start at wraiths. Rupture the ground where they’ll spawn at 1:38-1:39 and smite the big one off the bat. Auto-attack them to death, not wasting any mana on a second rupture, and walk over to wolves at pretty much full hp. Lay a rupture, auto-attack the big one, switch targets when your second rupture comes up and level e after the big one dies. Chug a potion if you’re lower than 3/4 hp as you walk over to blue buff, rupture, and auto-attack the golem. If your potion wears off, drink another. This is the time that you’re most vulnerable, and it’s important that you make sure that A) nobody leaves their lane and B) you haven’t been warded. You should have been item checking the other team the whole time. See that garen with boots and one health pot? Guess what that other 90 gold was.

Smite should come up right as you kill the small lizards next to the golem. Sometimes rupture will knock the small lizards out of place, just walk back a bit and reposition yourself so that vorpal spikes hit them as you auto-attack the golem. Smite as soon as it’s up and chug a third potion as you walk towards their jungle. You should be level 3 if nobody stole any exp. If not, you should probably stick to your side.

In their jungle, check first their wraiths. If they’re missing, immediately walk around red buff on the hidden side and check red from the bushes. If red is still there and there’s no champion doing it, consider the other jungler’s route and if he has to b before taking it. Check their stone golems. If stone golems and wraiths are both missing, they’re at blue buff and you should steal their red immediately. If they’re at stone golems, make the decision whether to harass for a kill or run, smite-stealing a golem if you can. If you can force them back here, great. If you can kill them, even better. If the mid and outer lanes leave to harass you, awesome. Don’t die and your lanes should be in great shape.

If they don’t have a jungler, take their wraiths -> their stone golems -> their red buff after you get your blue. Go to a lane, announce your gank, and hit a sick rupture or auto-attack using ghost to red buff them to death. Hopefully the score is 1-0 or 2-0 at this point and you can take a tower. If not, cover lane while your teammates heal and go back to jungling. Be aware, the other jungler is going to want to be doing the same thing as you. Most of them won’t have a ranged knockup or a stun, though, so for this phase you have the advantage.

Your first bluepill should be when you have enough for a HoG and boots, or just when you need more health pots. Pick up a ward if you can afford it and try to place it at dragon. Keep tabs on that at all times and gank anyone dumb enough to try it.

Your next goal is to hit level 6 asap. Kill jungle camps while warding their buffs/your grasses and control buffs. You should hit 6 not too long after your first gank, earlier if you got the kill or assist. Now is the time to make a decision:

If there is a lane that you think you can get a feast kill on with both buffs, go to that lane. If you think you can steal a buff from the other team’s jungler, go and get it. If there are no good options, stack feast out asap. Blue buff will allow you to do this really fast.

At this point, consider giving your physical DPS red buff if he doesn’t suck. If you have a kassadin, annie, anivia, nidalee, morgana, heimer, taric, soraka or ezreal, think about letting them have a blue buff. If you have no faith in your team, well… hog them both and be prepared to have to carry.

As the game goes on, your main goals will be to prevent the other team from getting dragon, ganking lanes, controlling buffs and warding to maintain map control. You should be as aggressive as possible in the early stages and generally push the pace the whole game.

Your farm will be ridiculous. I outfarm solo lanes sometimes not even counting jungle creeps. If you catch a good gank, you’re pretty much guaranteed their tower, and as the jungler you often have to defend open lanes. Rupture + Scream -> auto-attack with Vorpal to clean up and you should end up farming pretty much every minion you ever come across.

Chogath’s big strength when he’s jungling is his level 4 and level 6 ganks. He keeps pace with the solo lanes from levels 1-10 or so, and sometimes if you catch a good kill you’ll even outlevel them. When you show up in the side lane at level 4 with both buffs, full hp and ghost for the rupture kill you will make a big impression. It’s always great to get a “gg” from the other team under 5 minutes in. Do well in the gank phase, because it will catapult you into being the dominant midgame force.

Here are the item paths:

Tank Build
HoG -> boots -> HoG -> Merc Treads -> GA
From here, get a Negatron Cloak if you need more MR. If you’re doing well and you can skip the MR, get a Giant’s Belt that you will turn into a Sunfire. I’m a huge fan of base items like Chain Mail/Negatron Cloak/NLR/Giant’s Belt, so my build often ends up looking like HoG 2x, Merc Treads, GA, Giant’s Belt and Negatron Cloak. Obviously I intend to turn the Negatron Cloak into a Banshee’s or a FoN (I prefer Banshees for this build, if you need more MR then get another Negatron and make that a FoN waaaaay later) and the Giant’s Belt will become a Sunfire. Later on you can turn the HoG into a Randuin’s Omen or sell it for something situational.

Rod Build:
This isn’t really a dedicated AP build like my lane Cho is. RoA takes 15 minutes to max out, but once it’s maxed it’s a great investment, and in the meantime the base stats aren’t bad either.

HoG -> boots -> RoA -> Merc Treads -> GA

Same basic idea after this as the tank build. Maximize your resist/armor and stack HP to take advantage of it. Rod and GA give about the same amount of EHP so you should feel pretty tanky with this build while still hitting pretty hard.

AP Build:
So you’re the only nuker on the team? Ugh, pub games.
HoG -> boots -> NLR -> situational items
After the first NLR, which gives you a good chunk of damage to all of your skills, you need to decide whether or not you can afford to buy another NLR or whether you should switch to tanking out.

Alternatively, get mejai’s -> boots -> leviathan -> merc treads -> GA and just focus on stacking out. This build is by far the most fun out of all the builds, but it’s also the one that’s hardest to pull off against good players. If you start to snowball there’s no stopping you, though, once you have about 10 stacks you’re just going to tank everything while wrecking their team.

Important points to remember:
There are a few things that will set you really far back as jungle Chogath. I’ve learned these things through experience and I want to save you the humiliation.

DON’T fight Win Zhao 1v1 if he’s jungling. Try not to fight him 1v1 in general. Cho just isn’t good at finishing him unless he’s low enough to rupture->scream->feast to death. I’ve blown a full combo on him only to have him auto-attack me to death with his passive and three-talon.

DON’T try to take the dragon early. You’re just making sure they don’t take it. Cho is great at killing little creeps and staying at full HP but dragon will kick your ass and it’s liable to get stolen.

DO use feast to finish buffs, especially if you’re not maxed. With blue buff the cooldown is pretty fast and it’s actually super important to max it asap so you can use it for damage purposes instead of saving it for kills. Walking into a fight and dropping a carry to 200hp with your combo is a nice way to announce yourself and severely gimp them.

DO buy a ton of wards. If they ward dragon, invest in a vision ward or an oracles. I prefer vision wards early and oracles after my GA. If you do a good job they’ll never know where your team is.

DON’T dive recklessly with buffs. You will outright lose a game if you dive a vlad or a nidalee and they manage to live through it as you donate them double buffs. Gank easy targets, not hard ones.

DO abuse easy targets. Last game I played, it was vlad vs mordekaiser at top. I went for the gank with double buffs at level 4 and killed mordekaiser. We got him and vlad was at super low hp. Mordekaiser respawned and I left lane as Vlad recovered hp by leeching creeps. Mordekaiser came back to try and kill vlad, and I still had red buff, so we ganked him out of position again, taking the tower afterwards. A minute later, Vlad had a 4 level advantage, two kills, and we had taken tower. We put on cruise control and coasted to the win.

DON’T engage in bad spots, when you’re oom, or when the enemy is mia. Your team will blindly follow you into any fight because you’re huge. It’s not a good idea to run into a 5v5 only to get yelled at because you didn’t have any mana for silence, rupture or feast.

DO let your team know when you’re oom, when feast is up, when feast is down, and when you have to b. As the tank/jungle, it’s your duty to call the shots. You have the responsibility to be aware of the map and to inform your teammates of missings. You have to know when someone leaves a lane because a lot of the time your teammate won’t call or ping it because he’s busy. Pay attention to lanes when you’re doing buffs or raiding their jungle. Pay attention to lanes when you go to gank, because they might have warded. YOU call the shots, and it’s on YOU if the other team catches you or any of your teammates out of position.

DO prioritize your targets. Yes, you need to take out that Kogmaw, but sometimes it’s more important to hit rupture on his team so your deeps can get a shot at him. If they have an escape artist like Kass/Shaco/Nid/Ez, you NEED to hit them with silence, and you’ve probably only got one shot. Is someone channeling an ult? Try to anticipate it and save a skillshot for it. Sometimes you’ll need just a little more mana, and that creep wave can refill you enough to land a feast. Last hitting those creeps can mean the difference between winning and losing a fight.

DON’T be caught across the map when their team is taking dragon or baron. You’ve got smite, feast, rupture and scream. There is no reason that they should be able to take baron on your watch. Don’t know where they are? You need more wards. Try to entice everyone on your team into buying some on their next trip, and really try to stress the importance of baron ward by saying things like “okay, I warded baron, let’s keep it warded from now on” and “does anyone have a ward for when baron ward expires?”

DO choose the right build based on the game flow. Sometimes you’ll be forced to run full AP gear and strictly nuke. Sometimes you’ll be the only tank on the team and as much as you want to one-shot their squishies, you have to build full tank. Think ahead. Where will the game be in 10-15 minutes?

Closing thoughts:
I love Chogath. I play other champions pretty well, but usually when I queue with other people, I wait until they pick and fill out the team. If it’s ranked I’ll grab the higher priority champs earlier, but I always end up thinking “well, we need a tank, and some cc would be nice” or “we don’t have any AP, and some cc would be nice” or “we need some cc, and it wouldn’t hurt to have another tank” and pretty invariably, especially in late position, I end up choosing Cho. After perfecting my jungling, my thought process is like “we don’t have a jungler and we need a tank… and some cc would be nice too.” Chogath fills so many needed roles at once that it’s a wonder more people don’t play him. Anyway, you’ve got the element of surprise. Nobody knows how strong jungle Cho’s gank phase is. Get out there and feast those noobs.

5HATCOMBO 09-09-2010 08:25 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Reserved

Here are a few pictures for your viewing pleasure. Yes, I did jungle with all of these builds. In spite of that, note my high CS, which doesn't count jungle creeps. Also I find that I can pretty much do anything and win because I'm such a huge baller with Cho so there's an all boots build attached and one that I just did whatever the hell I felt like.

Leirkov 09-09-2010 08:33 PM

+1. Jungle Cho is one of my favorite junglers. (Though I do start at blue, and I used to do your path, lawl).

Great guide, in depth and mentions wards. So obviously it's good.

Jaksiel 09-10-2010 09:25 AM

Great guide.

Rakonyryu 09-10-2010 10:14 AM

Nice reading ! I`m sure I`ll be trying it very soon. Btw, I`ve made a post on my last trys of a AD Cho, and I would love it if you could rate it for me, since I`m sure you`re more experienced than me it would be lovely if I could get feedback from you. Thx in advance. (+1)

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=242092

GhostDieM 09-10-2010 11:53 PM

Guide sounds good, never really thought of Cho as a jungler, and he used to be my main :o +1!

Lorifel 09-11-2010 05:03 AM

I love your Cho'Gath guides. Could you please put a link to your previous guide in the text?
Here is this link:
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=148300

Brontobeuf 09-11-2010 08:11 AM

Very good guide that motivates me to play Cho again. :]
Strong arguments, well detailed, complete, and correctly written.

Kelzb1tches 09-11-2010 08:59 AM

Amazing guide, not only to the big ol' Blowgath as I affectionately call him but to anyone looking to jungle really really amazing info. Thanks =)

Amaterasuomikami 09-11-2010 10:17 AM

Ive played against you and your jungle Cho specifically :D

I rememeber going [weird a jungle cho, is his passive enough to let him?] and then getting stomped by your team that round

Ahh memories...


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:44 AM.


(c) 2008 Riot Games Inc