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-   -   Hybrid Penatration item concept - Anuket's Halberd (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2277069)

Irelia Bot 06-24-2012 01:05 PM

Hybrid Penatration item concept - Anuket's Halberd
This is an idea for an item that would benifit champions that build hybrid while being far less useful for ones that do not.

If you like this idea go like and bump the updated version here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3585631

It is built from a Blasting wand and a Pickaxe + 515 gold (total 2350) (EDIT: if the same build path as rageblade is a problem then Pickaxe(975) + kage's (765) + Amplifying Tome(435) + 175 = 2350 could be done instead)

Stats are
35 AD
50 AP
Passive unique: provides 8% armor pen + 1% for every 20 AP (caps at 30%)
Passive unique: provides 8% magic pen + 1% for every 15 AD (caps at 30%)

Note that the AP does not boost the magic pen and AD does not boost the armor pen.

This item would be ideal for champions that are building hybrid such as Akali who could get it near or up to the cap in a really long game but in most games would likely get to about 20% armor and magic pen.

It would be limited in how useful it would be for a champion who is only building AP as a result of needing AD to boost the magic penetration and vice versa.

A total of 440 AP is needed to reach 30% armor penetration
A total of 330 AD is needed to reach 30% Magic penetration

I will be bumping this from time to time in hopes that it will be seen, considered and discussed. The name can easily be changed to something else if it was to be put in the game but that is not an important factor.

Previous post where this item's stats are http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...id+penetration

Edit: Because the main problem most people seem to have with any hybrid penatration item Idea is that it would allow for a huge percent of penatration when stacked with Viod Staff or LW I will post the math behind why that should not be a problem.

Let us say you have Void staff and Anuket's, if you have anukets maxed for magic pen you would have the enemies MR being 70% of what it was so 200 would become 140. If you add in the % pen from void staff you times that 140 by .6 reducing it to 84 MR. This might seem like a major reduction but it is only for the owner of these items and to get that 58% reduction you have to get 330 AD which will take up 4 item slots. That means that you only have 2 other item slots one of which should be boots and the other will likely be a Crystal scepter or some other health item.

Now say that you build for damage instead of health, you have a deathcap, 2 bloodthirsters, anuket's, Void staff and boots (note that is an all offence build no defence at all so you are really easy to kill.) This would be (140 +50 + 70)*1.3 AP = 338 AP for 24.9% armor pen you would also have if the BT were fully stacked 235 + 110 (base AD) =345 AD for 30% magic pen and 40% magic pen for 58% magic pen. This build is a glass cannon build so if you get hit a few times you are likely dead, it provides you with 338 AP for 58% armor pen to and 335 AD for 58% magic pen. This is a really high cost build and would only happen in really long games. Second is that if you get cc'd at all you are likely dead. If you were to get crystal scepter instead of Deathcap you would only have 200 AP and 18% armor pen but more health.

Let us say that instead you were to build pure AP with RoA, crystal scepter, Void staff, Deathcap, Hourglass and boots this would provide (80 + 80 + 70 + 140 + 100 + )*1.3 Ap = 611 AP with 40% magic pen and decent sustain. This would like be a more stable build having enough health, armor and MR to survive a few hits while doing a fairly large amount of damage this would be far more useful agaist squishies and have around the same results against tanks.

Update on possible change to passives.

IF this item proves to be to hard to get anywhere near the 30% for both sides without building pure glass cannon

35 AD
50 AP
Passive unique: provides 10% armor pen + 1% for every 15 AP (caps at 30%)
Passive unique: provides 10% magic pen + 1% for every 12 AD (caps at 30%)

THis would make it so that you would need 300 AP and 240 AD for both sides to be capped.

Also it might be made so that the magic pen scales off of only bonus AD so this item is less desirable for AP champs that just want more penetration.in this sutuation it could be

8% + 1% for every 5 AD (caps at 30% total)

Another issues that has been brought up is the possibility that it gives to much penetration with the flat % to start. It is not likely an issue because this is taking up an item slot but if it proves to be an issue something like this could be done.

1% armor pen for every 10AP (caps at 30%) 300 AP needed
2% magic pen for every 7 bonus AD (caps at 30%) 105 AD OR
1% magic pen for every 8 AD (caps at 30%) total 240 AD needed

Edit 4/9/2013

25% armor and magic pen as the cap would likely be for the best after the season 3 change in how penetration is applied.

Common question 1: why is this allowed to stack with LW or VS?
The reason for this is that there is no real benefit from getting this item with another penetration item. If you get this item to have the armor pen at it's cap then you have to get a rather large amount of AP. as a result if you get a LW with this item you will not have much actual AD to back up the high amount of penetration. Having 50 % armor penetration but only 200 total AD to back it up is no where as good as having 35% armor penetration with 350 total AD. I did the math up to 10,000 armor and it was still better to have 350 AD with 35% pen. Because of how it functions it is more of a noob trap if someone gets this item and a LW/VS than a benefit.

axesandspears 06-24-2012 03:12 PM


Pitufito Dell 06-24-2012 03:51 PM

I think there are too many suggestions to create hibrid penetration items, but lets see...

Akali, main damage is still magic, build MPEN.
Jax, main damage, is mixed really, but he can go whit any of the penetration items (if not both) and do well.
There is already dificult to itemize vs an hibrid, a hibrid penetration item is just overkill.

Irelia Bot 06-24-2012 05:28 PM


Originally Posted by Pitufito Dell (Hozzászólás 26060427)
I think there are too many suggestions to create hibrid penetration items, but lets see...

Akali, main damage is still magic, build MPEN.
Jax, main damage, is mixed really, but he can go whit any of the penetration items (if not both) and do well.
There is already dificult to itemize vs an hibrid, a hibrid penetration item is just overkill.

Just wondering if you have ever tried building akali hybrid. It is good but does tend to fall off against teams that are building high amouts of both armor and MR. The main reason Akali is usually built AP is because the items that are out push her in that direction. She doesn't benifit from crit chance but she does benifit from lich bane procs as well as using her ult which are 2 different types of damage.

You don't have an option of getting a good amount of armor and Magic pen with only one item slot. This is 30% max for both but would not be 30% for either at 20 minutes unless someone is being fed like crazy. If an Akali had this item at 20 minutes it would likely be around 15 - 20% for both armor and Magic Pen. A gunblade with this item would provide 120 AP (6% armor pen) + say 30 AP from runes/masteries (1.5%) for 15.5% armor pen and 75 AD (5% magic pen) + 15 from runes/masteries + say 75 AD base AD for 19% magic pen.

Let us say that Akali has a full build that is more hybrid, Gunblade, Rage Blade, Anuket's, crystal secpter, Lich bane and boots that is 325 AP add in say 50 for runes/masteries resulting in 375 AP, 8% + 18.75% = 26.75% with those same items you get 110 added AD + 110 from her basic AD and say 25 AD from runes/masteries for 245, 8+16.3 =24.3% magic pen. (this is only once level 18) (no Arcane Knowledge or Weapon Expertise)

If you want to go with a deathcap and void staff instead of rageblade and lich bane you now have 47.2% (53.02% with Arcane Knowledge) and 30% armor pen but far less physical damage. This is really high build cost making it so that it would only show up in games that are long where most everything is already getting killed in under 5 seconds if focused. This build has no lich bane so it would not proc for 600+ physical damage on some basic attacks. It it might be better to pass on Anuket's Halberd and get something like a lich bane if you are really wanting to have more overall damage or they are only building magic resist.

This is going to provide more options for how to build champions but might not actually prove to make the best builds in all situations. If the other team is tanky then this will be a good option where as if the other team is squishy going for more direct damage would likely be a better option

Tempestt 06-24-2012 11:42 PM

i dont get why you would choose this over last whisper or void staff...

Irelia Bot 06-25-2012 01:58 AM

You would get it when you are actually doing both physical and magic damage.

KesslerCOIL 06-25-2012 02:46 AM

im gonna have to say no since jax and kogmaw are scary enough.

Irelia Bot 06-25-2012 06:21 AM

If it shows Jax and Kog to be stronger then they should be while being a positive effect for Kat and Akali then isn't it doing something beyond what it was intended that has a positive effect on the game?

The Blue Jelly 06-25-2012 11:39 AM


Originally Posted by Tempestt (Hozzászólás 26080806)
i dont get why you would choose this over last whisper or void staff...

Because it's only 1 item, freeing up a whole 'nother item slot for you to buy something that doesn't provide solely pen on a hybrid champion.

Anyways, This gets a +2. No really, I liked it so much, I'm going to hop on a smurf to +1 it again.

Qeuscis 06-25-2012 05:09 PM

Don't allow the %Pen to stack with void staff or LW. This is the only holdout balance-wise. Also, the passive should be worth at least 750 gold.

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