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-   -   How can we improve Dominion's point system? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2236364)

Nome or Die 06-18-2012 10:12 AM

How can we improve Dominion's point system?
Hey folks, I wanted to grab some feedback for Dominion's personal score system (not the Nexus health). What can we do to improve it?

This thread will be mirrored across NA, EUW, and EUNE. Links to the other two threads are as follows. Any important updates or replies I make will be quoted in this thread for convenience.
EUW: http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board....php?p=7675043
EUNE: http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board....php?p=7675043


I do see a lot of posters who question the necessity of the point system. While I agree that the point system as-is, or under any certain design, may not be perfectly indicative of a player's contribution to his team, I am quite adamant of its usefulness, particularly to new players. Why? Because unlike on the classic maps, there is no rolling track record of your contribution to the team. The goal is different; it's capture-and-hold, and as such, the traditional metrics for success don't apply. This is a big reason why you see this massive disparity between "public" and organized Dominion play; there's no clear-cut template for success, and most players aren't willing to make the jump from selfish behavior to team-oriented, team-forward tactics.

Does this mean that every time you use Revive, you should get 50 points, and every time you use Flash, you only get 1? Maybe it does. But the general idea is that the point system should give players a point of reference and positive reinforcement for being legitimately useful.

About the underlying motivation behind player action in Dominion:

On Summoner's Rift, the win condition is to destroy the enemy Nexus.
On Dominion, the win condition is to bring your enemy's points down to 0.

On Summoner's Rift, the primary objective is to take down turrets and inhibitors.
On Dominion, the primary objective is to control capture points.

On both maps, champion kills are a secondary objective in that they clear the way to accomplish your primary objective. However, on Dominion, the value of the secondary objective is diminished due to a decreased ratio of active-to-passive rewards, modified spawn system, and proliferation of Summoner Revive.

Players new to Dominion fail to grasp this fact, but we run into a causation issue if we try to blame this on the point system, as the point system may either be the motivator OR the (ex post facto) justification behind the behavior. A rehaul to the point system that rewards positive actions more closely tied to the primary objective would hence attack the system as a motivator, and at least remove it as improper justification. For example, a good start would be to grant points for every enemy capture cancelled, then grant stacking points for additional captures within a short timeframe to emphasize the importance of capture over kill.

Ardnalis 06-18-2012 10:13 AM

It's not really relevant to anyone. So, nothing.

To elaborate a bit more, the stat itself is useless. Getting a last hit on a champion is worth more than doing 90% of the damage. Yet, at the same time, CCing the champion or knocking out their big damaging ult doesn't count for anything. But if you make it count for something, then people are liable to blow their CCs for pointless reasons; why wait for Kat to shunpo in and CC her when you can get a CC off of on the Amumu currently on your team and not only do you get the same amount of points either way, you potentially make it so your team mates don't get as many points as they do from Kat's ult. Win the game? Who cares, I'm number 1 in points thus I'm our best player; you're a baddie.

junseii 06-18-2012 10:18 AM

The point system doesn't really matter to many people. I've only seen it used as an excuse to yell at someone else for playing poorly, and most of the time the person being yelled at was bottom lane, so whoever was complaining just shows they don't understand how points are given.

If anything, the points could be replaced with just the tower icon, with a number for towers taken, and towers defended.

Tormound 06-18-2012 10:18 AM

I'm not sure if you get points for this already but if not, getting points for pushing a minion wave to the next capture point might be nice.

Solmane 06-18-2012 10:19 AM

Are you talking about the points from the nexus or points from objectives?

IMO, I think its decent.
Also to the guy above me, i play bot morde alot and push my lane. I end up first in points almost every game.

As for adjustments... I would say that maybe we could get points for "draining the enemy point but not capping it".
Or 2v1 points where the person is stalling at a node vs multiple enemies. This gives the team more of a chance at winning at another point.
Also, Tier item points? :3

DiscworldDeath 06-18-2012 10:19 AM

I actually began thinking about it 4-6 hours ago, funnily enough.

I don't exactly have concrete thoughts yet, since it's something that I still want to think about, but I've got one thing, it's less concrete and more direction:

The top Elo players do not need the point system. They need to win, and they'll do what will lead them to win.
The point system should be designed to teach good practices to new players, to help complete dominion newbies learn what they should do, and when, and how. Aim the point system towards teaching how to play Dominion, and if the losing team has more points (which happened to me before), then it's alright too.

NoGoodInGoodbye 06-18-2012 10:20 AM

I think people who get 15+ kills and coming first with only 2-2 caps is sorta silly, I think kills should be worth slightly less and assists should go up or caps/defending should be worth more. Also bonus points for going like below 10% and killing on your point or killing an enemy 1v1 on a uncontrolled point?

Nyx87 06-18-2012 10:20 AM

I would prefer to get rid of it entirely.

However, if that is not an option, lowering some point values would be good such as the martyr bonus, and the bonus for capping and neutralizing a point. Also, maybe increase the amount for supporting a teammate, maybe then more people would be willing to fight together

Reprisal35 06-18-2012 10:21 AM

Make it over 9000.

On a serious note, increase the points when capping towers and defending it while decreasing the points on killing the enemy team. The last time I played a game of dominion, no one really wanted to cap the towers, they just went straight for the kills. You can easily rack up 15 kills and end up as the number one players while having no points for capping or defending.

The Fizznity 06-18-2012 10:23 AM

I think the biggest problem is that it's more of a reflection of "things you've done" and not of use to the team. For instance, the person who goes bot gets one of the lowest scores even though they're arguably the most important person on the team (good bots force the enemy team to keep ganking and make it easy to hold 3 points).

I'm honestly not sure what can be done to improve it; perhaps putting more emphasis on capping points? I've heard that the Martyr bonus doesn't help very much, so perhaps tie that to dying and picking up 2 or more assists while dead or some similar other useful measure of "martyring"? (AFAICT you get martyr whenever you die near a point of yours/neutral, and possibly when low health allies are around or something)

I'd also argue towards increasing the "point defense" bonus, but having it only trigger on enemies near the point (perhaps 10 points/interval per champion close to the point?)

My suggestion would also be to lower points given for neutralizing, and increase points given for securing points; this would help discourage unsuccessful backcapping attempts and teach players to only go for a backcap when it will probably be of use to the team.

Finally, I'd like to see a small bonus for players grouping - perhaps 5 more points per ally capping a point?

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