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-   Twisted Treeline (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=49)
-   -   2600+ games played, 90% of them on TT, ask me anything about TT (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2007226)

Death Crave 04-10-2012 06:25 AM

2600+ games played, 90% of them on TT, ask me anything about TT
 
As the Title says, I have so many games on TT that I consider myself a preverbial knowledge base when regarding anything TT.

My opionons on the design of this map differ from many others, I see some flaws most people dont see, and ignore some of the flaws they point out.

I have seen and played every champion on this map, and I have a good idea about who are the best picks.

The biggest flaw I have noticed is that the top lane is longer than the bottom one, this leads to imbalanced minions and can mess with auto pathing.

Another flaw, that isnt major but can cause problems is the top jungles design of having 2 buffs touching each other in the direct middle of the top of the map. If the 2 buff camps were switched with the middle camps placing them on either side of the field opposite, or even the top camps on either side it would be a bit more strategic to get both buffs.

In the current design it is far too easy to grab both buffs in succesion.

If I could re design the map to make it a bit more balanced around the jungle I would re shape top lane to match bottom, place only 3 camps top, the 2 buffs on either side and Red buff in the middle. The Middle of the map would be expanded slightly, having the dragon moved their as well as all 4 minor creep camps.

This would change the design in a way to help incorporate junglers more effectively.

Now I am not saying no one can jungle in 3v3 currently, but I have never seen one of my team mates EVER choose to jungle, and actually win.

So there are some of my opinions, I love me some Twisted Treeline, feel free to ask a veteran anything!

Requiem Tear 04-10-2012 06:51 AM

I feel as though this is a Legitimate question. What is your opinion on pure jungle on this map. Typically i play SR, where i almost exlusively jungle. When me and a few friends decide to queue up for TT, I generally decide even though the current meta seems to be, 1 top, 2 bot, Me and my friends run 1 top, 1v2 bot, and i jungle. this has been successful for us in the past. I'm just curious to get another opinion on this. Though as long as you have a strong champion to hold a 1v2 that has range farming capability, i feel that the aspect of the jungle is fine. My top lane still takes buffs and camps, even though i farm, i'm more there to repeatedly gank lanes, and get them fed. There to clear wards, control dragon and things like that. We generally run comps like.. Gp top, morde 1v2 bot, and i'll jungle nunu. or... Garen top, ww 1v2 bot, i'll play lee sin. I feel that especially if you have shaco, this has advantages over the current meta. it allows bottom lane to become over level'd and if they get gp10 when i gank, we are almost guarenteed a kill.

thoughts?

Death Crave 04-10-2012 07:07 AM

Like I said it never seems to work for me, but thats because most junglers are easy enough to shut down.

I have seen it work for opposing teams on about a 1 in 7 game ratio, most of those times consisting of a shaco Jungler.

If you do go 3 tough fighters / tank champions you can pull off the jungling team easily, but it seems far more dependant on if the enemy decides to counter jungle you or not.

My experience is that so long as we dont go out of our way to fight the jungler, and almost entirely ignore him, the 1 top 2 bot composition works out vs jungler teams most of the time. But again I do lose 1 in about 7 games to jungler teams the other 6 games my team seems to listen to me when I say ignore them and we will win.

The problem with a jungler is not only do they have to jungle fairly precisely, if they dont gank properly they will only hinder their teams xp gain.

Example your team is garen top and a jungler, while the enemy has lee sin top. Your jungler attempts to gank lee sin, but he escapes using a ward to top jungle, then takes 1 - 2 camps in the jungle. Your jungler just lost xp for himself, as well as top lane who is supposed to carry.

Now ganking bottom has less negative effects, but you are still going 2v2 at that point so if you dont have a level advantage your most likely to fail.

Shaco jungling is by far the best choice if you plan to win, because he can blink through walls quickly to get back to jungle if a gank goes wrong. This means less chance of losing xp, tryndamere can also work but he is much better as a top solo.

I am not a fan of Nunu since most 3v3 comps run multiple CC effects his ult is very gimmicky, he has great jungling times though, so it can work but I have not seen it.

I rarely jungle in 3v3 since I once again feel it isnt worth it, it feels too easy to shut down but that may just be my experience.

Lemming 04-10-2012 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death Crave (Hozzászólás 23017794)
If you do go 3 tough fighters / tank champions you can pull off the jungling team easily, but it seems far more dependant on if the enemy decides to counter jungle you or not.

I agree, being counterjungled can set you behind. Bottom can counterjungle you, but if your top is doing okay then you should be AT LEAST be able to take top jungle.

If you consider that the support is taking bot jungle, you still have the advantage. You have one more buff in top jungle, and superior dragon control. You also take the buffs and camps away from the opponent top lane, preventing champions like Tryndamere from snowballing so easily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death Crave (Hozzászólás 23017794)
The problem with a jungler is not only do they have to jungle fairly precisely, if they dont gank properly they will only hinder their teams xp gain.

Example your team is garen top and a jungler, while the enemy has lee sin top. Your jungler attempts to gank lee sin, but he escapes using a ward to top jungle, then takes 1 - 2 camps in the jungle. Your jungler just lost xp for himself, as well as top lane who is supposed to carry.

So take your camps before you gank. It's pretty common knowledge that unless a gank looks really good, you take your camps. So they should be down when you gank. If they aren't, couldn't you simply follow Lee into the jungle? Assuming equal strength, you should be able to scare him off the camps; especially if your top comes with you.

You also picked an EXTREMELY mobile champion that most people wouldn't want to gank anyway.

Just my two bits.


My question is this: The composition I usually run with my friends an AD bruiser to jungle, Squishier AD top, and AP tank bottom. It works quite well, but whenever we run into a ranged AD/Support in bot lane we lose the lane HARD. Are there any champions who could deal with it?

Xfighter123 04-10-2012 11:38 AM

who would be the typicial bans in TT, or who would be OP?

Death Crave 04-10-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xfighter123 (Hozzászólás 23026537)
who would be the typicial bans in TT, or who would be OP?

tryndamere for wall jumping warwick because of jungle dominacne and singed...because he annoys me.

Death Crave 04-10-2012 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemming (Hozzászólás 23026411)
I agree, being counterjungled can set you behind. Bottom can counterjungle you, but if your top is doing okay then you should be AT LEAST be able to take top jungle.

If you consider that the support is taking bot jungle, you still have the advantage. You have one more buff in top jungle, and superior dragon control. You also take the buffs and camps away from the opponent top lane, preventing champions like Tryndamere from snowballing so easily.



So take your camps before you gank. It's pretty common knowledge that unless a gank looks really good, you take your camps. So they should be down when you gank. If they aren't, couldn't you simply follow Lee into the jungle? Assuming equal strength, you should be able to scare him off the camps; especially if your top comes with you.

You also picked an EXTREMELY mobile champion that most people wouldn't want to gank anyway.

Just my two bits.


My question is this: The composition I usually run with my friends an AD bruiser to jungle, Squishier AD top, and AP tank bottom. It works quite well, but whenever we run into a ranged AD/Support in bot lane we lose the lane HARD. Are there any champions who could deal with it?

From experience Galio deals with ranged well as an ap tanky dps. Another choice is nunu, as both can range harass back with spells and have a form of sustain.

Sam 04-10-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death Crave (Hozzászólás 23026945)
tryndamere for wall jumping warwick because of jungle dominacne and singed...because he annoys me.

Warwick does not dominate jungle. FYI. He can survive it, but he can't clear it as fast and has no gank potential until level 6 and up.

Singed is annoying but he is easily winnable, get a strong champ to shove him out of lane. Only reason Singeds win games are because people let them farm.

Bans in what I've seen in rank are : Shyvanna, Lee Sin. Most of the junglers, and every once in awhile Tryndamere because in the elos I've be playing everybody understands how to stop Trydnamere.

Sam 04-10-2012 02:50 PM

My question is this: The composition I usually run with my friends an AD bruiser to jungle, Squishier AD top, and AP tank bottom. It works quite well, but whenever we run into a ranged AD/Support in bot lane we lose the lane HARD. Are there any champions who could deal with it?[/QUOTE]

To handle actually, let your jungler get ahead of them in a levels or two. Get a strong AP caster, kennen/cass go balls deep when you get level 6, or actually you don't even need level 6 just harass and attempt to farm. Than get your jungler for a gank when your lane is pushed. Instant death if you guys coordinate correctly. :P

Sam 04-10-2012 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Death Crave (Hozzászólás 23017794)
Like I said it never seems to work for me, but thats because most junglers are easy enough to shut down.

I have seen it work for opposing teams on about a 1 in 7 game ratio, most of those times consisting of a shaco Jungler.

If you do go 3 tough fighters / tank champions you can pull off the jungling team easily, but it seems far more dependant on if the enemy decides to counter jungle you or not.

My experience is that so long as we dont go out of our way to fight the jungler, and almost entirely ignore him, the 1 top 2 bot composition works out vs jungler teams most of the time. But again I do lose 1 in about 7 games to jungler teams the other 6 games my team seems to listen to me when I say ignore them and we will win.

The problem with a jungler is not only do they have to jungle fairly precisely, if they dont gank properly they will only hinder their teams xp gain.

Example your team is garen top and a jungler, while the enemy has lee sin top. Your jungler attempts to gank lee sin, but he escapes using a ward to top jungle, then takes 1 - 2 camps in the jungle. Your jungler just lost xp for himself, as well as top lane who is supposed to carry.

Now ganking bottom has less negative effects, but you are still going 2v2 at that point so if you dont have a level advantage your most likely to fail.

Shaco jungling is by far the best choice if you plan to win, because he can blink through walls quickly to get back to jungle if a gank goes wrong. This means less chance of losing xp, tryndamere can also work but he is much better as a top solo.

I am not a fan of Nunu since most 3v3 comps run multiple CC effects his ult is very gimmicky, he has great jungling times though, so it can work but I have not seen it.

I rarely jungle in 3v3 since I once again feel it isnt worth it, it feels too easy to shut down but that may just be my experience.

To be honest you need jungler. I don't understand your point in the whole 1 top, 2 bot situations. You lose dragos easily without smite.

Nunu is not a strong character to jungle. It's actually pretty sad and bad. His AP scales really high, so recommended to go AP bot. (Solo)

There really isn't a problem with jungling.

What do you mean "The problem with a jungler is not only do they have to jungle fairly precisely, if they dont gank properly they will only hinder their teams xp gain. "

If they don't gank properly they can always steal exp and cs from the lane and push it hard. Just because they failed the gank doesn't mean you didn't have to pop a flash or some sort of summoner spell.

And Shaco isn't "By Far best choice if you plan to win". If he fails the level two gank, he would get out jungled hard after that by the other jungler. Shaco in teamfights is easily killable aswell. The only reason Shaco is a strong Tier is because its a 50-50 if you get the 1st blood with teammates, you start to snowball game really hard. But if it fails. . . You start to lose out on xp and gold from the jungle because the other jungler sees your in the lane and can easily go to your jungle and start stealing yours.


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