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-   -   Can anyone poke holes in this argument? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1980305)

Tsarius 04-04-2012 09:46 AM

Can anyone poke holes in this argument?
I have a friend who's a diehard TT fan and he considers SR to be the worse map in every possible way. I, frankly, suck at debating. Here's his copypasted argument, please help.

"Now before you read the rest of this, i do not deny that playing 5vs takes skill, because of course it does this is a skill based game. This is all in comparision to other maps. Because in comparsion it is jsut not as good.
So i have a very legitimate argument that not even 5vs player fans have yet to argue. Allright so to start off this part no one even trys to dispute, the games on the 5vs map last way to ****ing long...who the hells wants to play the same **** game for like 2 freakn hours. Secondly the map its self is the issue...its HUGE! Having a map that big is awful it forces you to buy potions and take things like teleport it takes so long to get anywhere, if you have to go back to base...gona take 20 minutes to get back out there. The size of the map really really takes away from the game play. And now due to the size of the map one of three incrediably lame things happens every 5vs game. One everyone just stays in there lane and nothing really happens and the game takes even longer then usual. Two there are these giant ass gank squads that are stupid, thats not tactics having 5 people bum rush one person is freakn retarted. In other maps you can get away from 2 or 3 people, but there is just no escaping from 4 or 5 its silly. And lastly There are these giant ass massive team fights were there is allmost no skill involved because there is way to much **** going on, everyone just kinda spams there abilities and whoever gets focused dies. The team fights on that map are just to chaotic to really take true skill, and this just takes away from the game play. And again due to the size of the map you cant really organise any kind of tactics its just to big to do anything smart...other then those giant ass gank squads which i allready explained are not tactics they are just dumb. So it boils down to 3s takes way more skill in the individual fights and really shows ones individual skill level, as well as having a map that you can actualy plan things out on. Dominion takes the cake for stratagy, nothing else can compare to the amount of tactics required to play dominon. So whether your interested in a tactics game, a game of skill, or a little of both 5vs is no the map for this. Not to mention if you ever want to have the game end 5vs is also ****.

So really what im saying here is...5vs is for noobs who dont grasp tactics, and have no skill in fighting. I am not a noob, are you?"

I edited out cuss words because I forget if they're allowed here or not. Good luck. (also, ignore typos, it was done over an IM system)

F J 04-04-2012 09:52 AM

Moscow Five, they way they play basically is what nulls his argument. They do everything that defies what he argues about in a 5v5 imo.

ChubbyFrank 04-04-2012 09:53 AM

I dont really see any evidence for all the claims he has... just a lot of his ideas with no facts. And if you get ganked by all 5 players it is because u didn't ward up. Also it doesn't take that long to get around the map.
In TT, you have only three people and if someone dies or trolls you are much more in trouble then SR.

Tokinatoor 04-04-2012 10:20 AM

I am die hard TT too..

And he does have points with 5 v 5 being Soooo chaotic...

TT is more about building and countering to your oppenent, and this often means games are very unmatched.

Last night I chose trundle and was against a fiora, talon and leona, and I ended up soloing all 3 of them after i was fed.

Trundle just rips that kind of champion apart, but they did play bad too.

TT is just easier to concentrate because less oppenents, less teams, and only dragon.

But there are many problems with TT he does not address.

I kind of like domion my self because there are many good things about 5 v 5, but it is less chaotic.

And no farming for 10-20 minutes required!

Dekar Volff 04-04-2012 10:36 AM

i guess that if (in SR) u just jump in a teamfight and spam your abilities you're doing it wrong

Stippy 04-04-2012 10:49 AM

Your friend is an idiot.

His lack of skill with more than three people speaks bounds about his ability to think on his feet, or strategize at all in general.

Also every point he makes is far exhaggerated and basically invalid. 20 minutes to walk? the map is not that much larger, maybe twice the size for twice the people.

Basically tell him he cant handle having more than one or two map objectives at a time. If he understood player roles and abilities he would know what to do in a teamfight as well.

Seriously your friend is a fool.

Armaurahn 04-04-2012 10:55 AM

first off, you have wards and mia calls in every lane so no, there isn't large gank squads tearing a person up unless we are talking about noob unorganized teams which, this is an argument that includes skill, so we are talking about skilled players, second, yes it is a pretty big map and it's a good thing so you actually have to THINK and be organized with your team so you don't end up dying or almost dying when you wonder around, that way you don't have to visit the nexus as much, and in teams fights you can say that everyone is spamming their skills but why wouldn't you be? the carries have to put out their damage as fast as possible, tanks have to keep the damage on them while bruisers do a bit of both and the support spams as many healing and disruption spells as possible, only some champs like jarvan have a really situational ability in which it can't just be used or it can screw the entire team, and no dominion doesn't take any cake cause of how straight foward it is, five points have at least three, if your losing you can ninja one to pull some champs away from another or straight up over take, tons of different ways to go about it, but no jungle creep,s one buff per team and that's it, watch 2k elo of SR and watch how bad you get punished for letting the other team grab baron over yours, or getting a few dragon kills, and any way you have to earn your lvls by staying in lane or farming jungle or grabbing kills, they aren't given to you over time with gold so you can't go for your straight build like in dominion, half the time you have to improvise to stay in lane longer or to keep yourself from feeding, in a 3v3 there is normally two tanky dps and an ap carry, ad carrys tend to take too long to come into play in TT so they aren't picked at all and everything is straight foward, theres only three people to watch on the map and no jungler to shut you down if your pushing too much, the only things that shine in TT is coordination like every other map and damage output along with being able to stay alive, every map takes their own set of skills to play right but last i checked if dominion took more skill to play then it would be the one with a ranking system no?

SweetSheets 04-04-2012 11:03 AM

This is what I drew from his argument

Pros for TT:
Short games
Fast-paced games.

Too fast paced almost.
Extremely relient on early game success in ganks and farming.

SR pros:
Longer game / strategy (less punishing for early game mistakes.)
Larger team / more to work with.

Chaotic gameplay (I don't think team fights are chaotic, they just require lot's of micromanaging. IE. Watching your tank's health, trying to avoid / mitigate damage, relying on your support to heal, stun etc.)
Too large of a map to navigate for effective team play. (I feel as if this just increases pressure to carefully plan out team play, and not just dive in and hope for the best)

I included counter arguments in parentheses. But honestly, the two maps are two different styles of gameplay. Someone who excels in 3's can't just say "OMG INDIVIDUAL SKILL" start playing 5's and carry every game because of their skill. Teamwork and coordination is just as important as individual skill in 5's. Also, players in 5's can't just switch to 3's and say OMG TEAM WORK FORGET INDIVIDUAL SKILL. Because the metas for 5's and 3's are so different it's not funny. I'm a diehard SR Fan. I have tried 3's but it wasn't my thing. I felt as if Olaf and Mordekaiser just rolled through enemy teams far too easily. Twitch and Shaco are quite OP for 3's as well. It's all based on personal preference and to try and insinuate someone is a noob because they prefer a different playstyle. It's retarded. The gap between 5's and 3's reminds me of the gap between console gamers, and PC gamers. Or FPS players and RPG players. The games are two entirely different things and don't compare. Don't believe me? Start playing 3's seriously as you would 5's. Or start playing Dominion solely. Your perspective will change entirely. Metas change, builds change, playstyles change. So his claim that anyone who prefers a different game mode is entirely unwarranted.

DeathsAdvocate 04-05-2012 11:09 AM

Bump, want more input, so far one troll, one person against with zero support to his argument, 1 supporter for sr with a somewhat decent arguement, one random post that says little to nothing, 1 true support to tt, and one in between claiming its different. So far only one person arguing with any legitimacy solely against it.

Kize 04-05-2012 11:21 AM

there're already holes everywhere in his argument.

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