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-   -   Squishy Carry, Defensive Runes? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1677892)

Wolfalisk 01-05-2012 11:16 AM

Squishy Carry, Defensive Runes?
 
I often run flat armor Seals and MR/Level Glyphs on a lot of the champions I play, but I am beginning to wonder if this is a good idea for squishy champions.

My mentality is that, since squishy champions naturally have extremely low base resistances, the boost from the Runes is actually substantial since it's the only source of extra resistance.

But the other side of this is that, if you're squishy, and you're targeted and/or caught out of position, you are dead regardless of those runes. So is it more feasible to use blues and yellows to complement my champion's playstyle, rather than use resistance runes that I'll never have the HP to actually put to good use?

The Wrongsword 01-05-2012 11:33 AM

People dont actually look at the numbers, they just assume squishies must have lower stats. Actually, most champs have about the same base resistances with the exception that some have about 20 natural MR scaling and others dont. The other differences are pretty minor. At level 18:

Caitlyn: 76 armor, 30 mr. Vayne: 70 armor, 30 mr. Ashe: 70 armor, 30 mr.

Alistar: 77 armor, 30 mr. Amumu: 77 armor, 30 mr. Volibear: 77 armor, 52 mr. Leona: 73 armor, 30 mr.

Even base hp isnt that much different. At 18, Leona tops out at 1996 hp, Caitlyn at 1830. The difference at lvl 18 is less than a ruby crystal's worth of hp.

So how exactly do squishy champions have "extremely low base resistances"? They are basically the same, the major differences are champ abilities and item builds. Defensive runes are fine on squishies, they can buy a little extra time to get that dmg output in.

Narcomancer 01-05-2012 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wrongsword (Hozzászólás 19353581)
People dont actually look at the numbers, they just assume squishies must have lower stats. Actually, most champs have about the same base resistances with the exception that some have about 20 natural MR scaling and others dont. The other differences are pretty minor. At level 18:

Caitlyn: 76 armor, 30 mr. Vayne: 70 armor, 30 mr. Ashe: 70 armor, 30 mr.

Alistar: 77 armor, 30 mr. Amumu: 77 armor, 30 mr. Volibear: 77 armor, 52 mr. Leona: 73 armor, 30 mr.

Even base hp isnt that much different. At 18, Leona tops out at 1996 hp, Caitlyn at 1830. The difference at lvl 18 is less than a ruby crystal's worth of hp.

So how exactly do squishy champions have "extremely low base resistances"? They are basically the same, the major differences are champ abilities and item builds. Defensive runes are fine on squishies, they can buy a little extra time to get that dmg output in.

Depends on team comp and team mentality. How much protection you have, and how much survivability you need.

Melvear 01-05-2012 12:23 PM

While the armor/mr for most champions is nearly the same, HP does vary quite wildly. Soraka's base level 18 hp is 1653, while Nunu's base hp is 2381. Garen, Grags, Alistar all have between 2 and 2.2k hp, while LeBlanc, Annie and Ez have around 1.7k.

Ensign 01-05-2012 05:34 PM

Ranged carries do get less stats than melee champions; on average your 550 range champions have about 825 less gold worth of stats at level 1, and gain about 60 less gold worth of stats per level, than a 125 range melee champ.

How valuable defensive runes will be on a carry depends quite a bit on what stage of the game you are in, your team composition, and what kinds of fights you are getting into. For example, armor runes are *very* valuable on AD carries during the laning phase on SR, because they help you trade hits and win duels. Late game, during a team fight, they provide little value, as you're going to be in the back and will explode on contact anyway.

I value the defensive stats more highly on Dominion than I would on SR. You spend more time engaging in small fights, in 1v1s and 2v2s, where a bit more armor can make a huge difference. It is much more important to balance your offense and defensive capability on Dominion, since you have to be more independent to deal with the fluid nature of the map.

Forestgreen02 01-05-2012 05:40 PM

I'll be honest, if you do Dominion AD carries. Go with this, flat damage reds, MR/lv yellow/blue. Why so much MR? To stop thornmail from hurting so much. I main alot of AD carries simply because my team never likes to engage when I play tank till I'm dead. Flat damage reds because you should always get LW, at some point in the game because someone's always going to get armor. AD carries do not kill only squishies they kill everything tanks/offtanks included. They attack w/e is closest to them, AD carries are your SUSTAINED damage people.

KrYoS 01-06-2012 04:17 AM

I usually run Armor Pen reds, Armor yellos, MR/lvl blues and either Attack Speed or Movement Speed quints. Despite the passive armor and magic pen buffs on dominion, it's not uncommon to run in to 3 or 4 tanky dps or even a couple of true "tanks".

lbgsloan 01-06-2012 05:34 AM

The reason carries on SR run armour/MR instead of damage or attack speed isn't to overcome weakness, but to maximize early game advantage. On SR, all you will have for the first 5-6 minutes for damage is a Doran's Blade. Running armour seals, MR glyphs and the two resistance masteries gives you +19 armour and mres at a point in the game where damage output is very low. It makes the enemy carry harassing you in lane early on fairly pointless, moreso if your support has a heal or they have great timing on a shield. It is far more beneficial than running some extra damage or AS. Also carries don't like to spend gold on defensive stats except as a final slot consideration, so getting as much up-front as they can helps.

On Dominion, you can probably make a case for a more offensive set up. The impact of armour and mres seals and glyhps is lessened, while the lategame comes sooner and things like attack speed seals may have more benefit. It is solely a matter of preference; do you want maximum stats for the early windmill fights, or do you want more lategame power? I go the defensive path, but a friend of mine runs all AS seals and glyphs. Despite the SR hate on Dominion, you have vastly more choice in runes here.

Nunkuruji 01-06-2012 06:53 AM

The Dominion (de)buff cripples armor more substantially than magic resist.

That said, afaik hp/lvl and armor/lvl have always competed for best efficiency in that slot.

If your concern is getting quickly burst down - which is typical out of ap/magic damage, then the hp buffer can probably help you a lot more.

GrignardTS 01-06-2012 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcomancer (Hozzászólás 19354995)
Depends on team comp and team mentality. How much protection you have, and how much survivability you need.

This


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