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-   -   Buying a support: Karma or Orianna? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1613605)

redferrous 12-17-2011 10:35 PM

Buying a support: Karma or Orianna?
 
Im looking to spend my IP on a one of these 2 champs, they look fun even though they might not be the "best" support champs. I have never seen either of these two in Dominion, does anyone have experience playing (against) them?

Karma: I like her low CD

Orianna: I like her map presence / zoning ability.

Melvear 12-17-2011 10:43 PM

In both cases, you probably will want to play them more as mages than support. Now as far as specifics, I've never played Orianna so I won't comment on her.

Karma's fun, but she has no CC. Her slow is weak unless mantra'd, and even then it's weaker than most slows in the game (which is rather insulting imo). She has fair survivability through her shield, but you will need to build some form of resists to really make it shine.
Her burst is surprising, but her cooldowns are long-ish (you can only really use mantra shield and heavenly wave as nukes, the leash doesn't damage the main target) and make it so you have no form of sustained damage output. Given her lack of CC, that's a big issue, as you won't be able to kite people around. Even getting a Rylai's won't help, has all her spells are AoE

Not to say Karma can't be good, but I personally feel she lacks many of the things that make good Dom champions, and that she needs a few tweak to make her really usable.

IS1429332aa9b633 12-17-2011 10:48 PM

I suppose Karma can do fine bot lane if you build AP.

Shaxtenn 12-17-2011 10:57 PM

I prefer Karma over Orianna.

Both have the same weakness IMO, which is that their damage comes from a flurry of low-impact spells. You won't nuke anyone with a single rotation, like Kassadin/Malz/Brand. You'll need 2-3 combos of heavenly wave and mantra shield from Karma to take anyone out, and Orianna will need to land several balls and autoattacks.

Both have a haste/slow and a shield. Both can be deceptively tanky and throw out a surprising, unexpected amount of damage. Both have plenty of AOE damage.

Orianna is 90% skillshot-based. I don't like her because her range feels very short and her ball feels very slow when you're throwing it at someone. And it's gut-wrenching when you hit R, only for the enemy to not be where they were a moment ago. Because Dominion favours high-mobility or fast-moving champs like Ezreal and Kassadin, this happens often. Cassiopeia's skillshots feel fast and receptive - Orianna's do not.

Karma doesn't use skillshots (heavenly wave) so much as she uses ally positioning (mantra shield), and painting lines (spirit bond). I have a lot of fun with her playstyle. She's my favourite champion. She can kite anyone without a gap-closer pretty well, and she's the master of turning a fight around, with her shield and heal both also dealing AOE damage. I think Karma is a bit better than Orianna on Dominion, but I might have a different opinion if I practised more at landing the ball.

Shaxtenn 12-17-2011 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syl SGM (Hozzászólás 18631442)
I suppose Karma can do fine bot lane if you build AP.

Karma can bot lane. She can push very well with her AOE spells. She suffers a lot against some common picks though, due to her short range, burst not comparing with other burst mages, and sustained damage not comparing with sustained DPS mages. Ryze is probably my biggest headache. I've won and lost against Cassiopeia, Morgana, Yorick, Heimer etc.

She does very well in top lane. Karma is great in team fights, being able to throw out splash damage heals, splash damage shields, save low-health allies, and hit lots of people with her beam. This is Karma's true "support" role.

redferrous 12-18-2011 01:33 AM

hmmm thanks for your inputs. Can any Orianna pros weigh in on her ability to use the ball to challenge enemy movement? ie stick it in a passage and use it as a threat?

Nekrogen 12-18-2011 01:34 AM

After I master AD Malzahar, Orianna is my next project. I've seen some amazing Karmas though.

D E Merry 12-18-2011 02:48 AM

Ori really isn't the best AP mage on dominion. Instead, build her hybrid, with Guinsoo's, Wit's End, etc. for the full power of her auto attack instead.

MrSmileyy 12-18-2011 03:50 AM

Ori works best teamed with divers/bruisers as she can shield them an use them for her R (this works especially well with champs that have aoe and is lulsy with wu's ult combined). Also using your W to speed up said champs can make a huge difference in catching those few runners that often make away just in time.

People complain when i lock in orianna saying shes useless but I tend to get VERY good results anyways. Also, ori can bot pretty good as well, I have dominated bot lane 1v2 with her a few time if you play smartly.

I tend to build lucidity + glacial shroud/frozen heart (can delay final upgrade) and Ap items, bot lane I'll even often pick odyns veil over abyssal building her half tanky so I can survive ganks and my lane opponent, just make sure you get damage in their too (rabadons and rylai are great but void if you need the pen since no sorc boots).

I havent played karma enough to say much, but I love orianna in dom and also love showing whats up when they ***** at me for locking her. Consequently if we lose it's all my fault anyways and not the 1/10 xin.

Stimuz 12-18-2011 05:38 AM

Karma is good, but Janna does everything Karma does better imo. Dat redundancy.


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