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-   -   The Abyss Of Elo Hell (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1575834)

SwŞg 12-08-2011 07:41 PM

The Abyss Of Elo Hell
 
~ This was wrote in notepad - un-edited, its a rough draft for an article I'm writing up for a site to publish, let me know if you agree / disagree.

Elo hell..

The place we have all experienced at one point or another. With the constant feeders, afk's, ragers, dc'ers, and my favorite; the troll Evelynn pick. Many of those who are in this supposed hell are stuck and dont understand the proper means of getting out. Often we see players complaining that even when they dominate there lane, its not enough to win the game seeing as you can not carry 1v5. Others are frustrated with the repetition of bad team mates, people disconnecting mid game, or those lovely trolls picking Evelynn and running revive/teleport summoners.

Many will not agree with me in my next statement but it is one that I truly believe, that is, there is no hell. Yes I said it. There is no such thing as elo hell. Did you know that there are more "trolls" in 1700s range elo over the ones in 1200-1400s. Yes its true, often times after a days worth of playing, the high elo player will go into a ranked game just to troll for fun. Why they do this? Simply because there elo loss and gain is so little at that level, that when they need do feel like going back up, they can.

I have heard many times someone saying they do not belong in there elo. That they dominate there lane every game, and always go positive, that even when they have completely shut down there opponent in lane, and are fed, they still can not win due to bad team mate.

Let me say this, you do not carry yourself out of this supposed hell, by winning your lane, and having a high personal score. This occured to me when I myself in a solo que game, played brand mid and went 18-2-15: http://i1036.photobucket.com/albums/a441/smokex101/wow.png

So if completely dominating your lane is not enough to win the game, how do so many players easily climb out of the 1200s and move onto 1500+?

Farm, Decisions, and Knowledge. These three topics all come together and create a strong player.

Farm: The biggest difference between a 1500's player, and a 1800s player, is the capability to farm. Players in low elo will get roughly 65% of the incoming creep, where as the higher ranks are farming 85-90%. This is a big deal, seeing as about 20 creep is worth a kill, having more money, is a very big advantage, and it is not to get your ideal build faster, its to have the leisure of affording wards. Your goal should be to be able to afford 1 ward everytime you blue pill, supports ofcourse buying more.

Decisions: A strong player will analyze the current situation quickly, decide what action to take, and execute. If you want to win the game, you must know when to push your lane, when to leave and shop, when to go gank but most imporantly when to initiate. You are matched up with 4 random players, sometimes 3 if you are in a duo que. Ofcourse the team chemistry / coordination will not be there, but you do have the same disadvantage as the opposing team. The player who is able to lead his team by deciding when to go kill dragon, baron, split push, or initiate a fight, is the one who will carry himself out of elo hell. Most team mates are sort of running around waiting for something to happen, well if you are the one to say: " Hey look, there ad carry is farming top, lets force dragon right now and make them fight us for it 4v5 " - small communication like that, will lead to your team winning important team battles.

Knowledge: I hate to sound cheesy but knowing really is HALF the battle. Many players follow a routine build no matter what game they are in...this is very wrong! You have to know what items counter your opponents. Every game is a different situation and you must alter your build accordingly. More important then that is, you must tell your team mates what to build. Saying something as obvious as " Hey guys, there team is 3/5's ap, make sure everyone gets a banshees veil or some form of magic resistance " will win you the game. A long with knowing what to build, you must know your opponents abilitys. You need to know which champs you can beat pre-level 6, how long there cool downs are, how there ult works, when you can go in to exchange damage, there weakness' and strengths.

As I said these three work together..

1) You can not farm well if you are not able to decide weather to last hit or harrass your opponent, you need knowledge of your opponent to know which is best.
2) You can not make good decisions if you are behind in items due to lack of farm, you need knowledge to know how effective you can be with the items you currently have.
3) You can not WIN the game with knowledge alone, you might know exactly what to do, but if you do not farm well or make good decisions you will lose.

Why am i still a 1500s player? That is due to #3. I know exactly how to win games, but I am not at the skill level yet of never missing last hits and making the best decisions.

How did i lose a game going 18-2-15? Most likeley they had a player who told them i was the biggest threat, told his team to build more magic resistance, and focus on zoning me out and shutting me down.

I hope this will shed some light into your hell and you are able to reach the elo you truly deserve to be at.

Good luck summoners!

- Smokex

EDIT : The estimated CS Percentages - has been lowered - previous numbers were way to high.

Eotw 12-08-2011 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smökex (Hozzászólás 18218432)
Players in low elo will get roughly 85% of the incoming creep, where as the higher ranks are farming 95-98%.

Low elo probably gets closer to 50% or 60%. There's no way they only miss one creep per wave. Especially trying to kill the enemy over farming.

CrossJJ 12-08-2011 08:12 PM

Saying 95-98% is just silly, pros don't do that. In fact there should be some inflection point where CS % goes -down-, because people get better at harassing, and realize the value of it over obtaining maximum CS %.

Eotw 12-08-2011 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrossJJ (Hozzászólás 18219624)
Saying 95-98% is just silly, pros don't do that. In fact there should be some inflection point where CS % goes -down-, because people get better at harassing, and realize the value of it over obtaining maximum CS %.

The pros are also better at counter harassing, allowing them to kill the creeps while harassing the opponent and being harassed. Minor harassment (<10% damage or so) is not worth missing a creep.

Although I'm not saying 95% is right, I doubt there's such an inflection point.

SwŞg 12-08-2011 09:53 PM

Update Edit:

Low elos get 65% incoming creep - High elos get 85-90% ( I do believe the pros get most of it.. )

vinhsta 12-08-2011 10:29 PM

how do you know there are more trolls at the 1700s than 1200-1400 if youve never played solo que at those levels consistently?

DoubleSin 12-09-2011 03:59 AM

I posted this in another thread, but I think it deserves to be reposted here:


Feeders / Trolls / AFKs / Whatever else are assumed to be in lower ELO brackets because they lose ELO for their actions. That's why upper brackets don't see them much, fine that makes sense.

Sub 1500 ELO you start seeing people who have the ability to play or not feed, but also maybe don't want to be in the higher ELO brackets because their win/loss record goes to garbage. Much easier to play people in lower skill profiles, so these people who intentionally reduce their ELO exist somewhere in this region. (Lose a few games, play people who suck, come out net positive on win/loss record with little or no net change in ELO record). Then below that you have the rest of the garbage. Starting out with a win in a fresh season might get you around 1200-1300 ELO ranking. So here you see a lot of garbage while ELO stabilizes, this contributes to why not all garbage players exist in low ELO standings. Example: I have an account with say around 450 Normal wins net positive say 20 games over losses, I then play my first ranked and happen to win now I'm ranked 1280 ELO - that doesn't mean I'm a 1280 ELO player. If that was my first ranked ever I'm really probably a 1000 ELO player, but I'm going to play a solid 15-20 games before my net losses bring me to correct levels (some players will carry this account in ranked and happen to get this account some wins along the way that they probably don't deserve).

Now combine these types of players with the normal trash of AFKing / Leaving / Trolling / Whatever else, and you have a big pool of nonsense that you can get paired with. For example purposes I'm just going to say it's a 15% probability of getting paired with one of these players in the 1000-1499 ELO pool bracket. A 1600 ELO player goes on a losing streak in fair games, dips into 1300 ELO territory. They have a 15% probability of getting knocked with a bad player, 85% of the time they are not going to have a problem and so they win games and get back to their normal ranking 15 or 20 games later. They then go on the forums and claim no foul with ELO Hell.

Take the 1000 ELO player who has no spent a couple months getting better with skills and is now 200 ranked games in at 1100 ELO. This person has lived their entire ranked career bouncing in the 1000-1499 ELO bracket, constantly pairing with the higher probability of being paired with bad players. The probability a high ranked player gets hit with ELO hell is diminished significantly the higher the ELO they go. A ranked player who lives in the 1000-1499 bracket all day every day they are eventually going to get probability tipped against them. They get burned either between fair games or unfair games down to 1000, they have to span 500 points of ELO to get some serious diminishing returns on pairing with garbage players. It is unlikely that this player will go that many games in a row with fair gameplay in this higher probability bracket. So while a player may indeed get fair games more than 50% of the time in this bracket, it is unlikely that they will be able to get that probability in their favor enough times for them to exit this bracket.

What is even more depressing is that if probability runs against you more than once in a row, you fall into a pit that becomes even more difficult to get out of. For every 1 ding against you, you need two to get out. This multiplicative effect means that you end up having an even higher probability of getting sucked back down than you do of getting out regardless of skill level (you have to constantly be the equivalent of two players in order to compensate for one bad player in order to overcome this probability, and forbid you end up getting TWO bad people in the same game on your team, then it doesn't even matter anymore). Assuming everyone else on your team is equal minus the one bad seed, and everyone on your opponents team is equal that 2 man equivalence also still does not hold true. Feeders turn bad opposing players into formidable players just because they outpace you so quickly in gold. Skill becomes irrelevant when a Singed can tank 5 players and two towers doing nothing but right clicking randomly around the screen just because he's 4 levels higher with 4k more gold than anyone else on the map, purely because he was solo top against an intentional feed Kat with 6 mana crystals.

IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE, AT LEAST READ THIS PARAGRAPH In simple analogy: at 1700 ELO, you deal with 1 griefer and not deal with another one for 10 games. At 1100 ELO, you deal with 3 griefers in a row, then 3 games later you deal with another 3 in a row. Whether they're on your team or the others is irrelevant because it takes two games for every 1 poor game to go net positive ELO, and in THAT probability it is less likely for you to advance because probability says you will get a garbage player that you will not be able to compensate for on your team faster than you will exit the probability bracket to where this is not true. This is the math behind what people refer to as ELO hell. Yes some people are lucky enough to exit this bracket (It's a lottery after all, there are some winners), and those people who are lucky enough tend to be good players because good players have a higher probability of exiting than bad players (bad players who win the lottery will self mutilate themselves back down, so their fair games are moot) BUT THAT IS NOT EVIDENCE THAT THE SYSTEM IS FAIR - which is the annoying thing that I hear these players claim. The larger population of good players will NOT win the lottery: The ELO Lottery pool is stacked against them.

To say this stuff doesn't exist is ignoring facts, not opinions. Pictures, videos, statistics have been posted (mine have been deleted by Riot for unknown reasons). I've gone not just a few games, but multiple days in a row without getting a 5v5 fair match in. I've had multiple games where people flat out say they will troll the game in character selection just because they don't like someone in the game because they disagree on some trivial thing, even unrelated to the game (once it was because one was a Republican and another was a Democrat! Why is that justification to troll a ranked game?) Imagine trying to dig yourself out of that pit?

Note: Before some idiot says it, I know 1100-1499 are made up ELO bracket numbers. I do not know the true place where "ELO Hell" exists, I am just picking numbers for example purposes. If I had access to Riot's database then it would be easier to pinpoint where it exists. Ever wonder why ranked stat tracking on outside websites stopped? When this happened it became impossible for outsiders to find anomalies.

ELO works in Chess because it is 1v1, someone else can't cause you to self destruct. This is not 1v1, applying a 1v1 metric to 5v5 is poor by design. It works in football because the team has major incentives to do better, and major disincentives towards doing poorly. If your QB intentionally sucks, your whole team's ELO fails regardless if the rest of the team is individually the best in the nation at what they do. That doesn't mean a mediocre ELO is an appropriate measure for that team because of one person. This is the fallacy of ELO. Give each player a multimillion dollar contract to play LoL then maybe you'll see the ELO system work. Until then, fair games are reserved for the 0.2% who don't have to worry about ELO because it actually works in their games.

WoLF42 12-09-2011 04:31 AM

Regardless of ELO, those 3 main tips are great :D

krispyKRAKEN 12-09-2011 10:47 AM

SinfulSoul4000,

I love that whole last section of your post. Also I've lost the past 4 matches due to rage quits and only 1 of these matches we seemed to be losing. I like to think that no game is impossible to win, however, when you have teammates who rage quit on their second death 6 minutes into the game which is common apparently, there's nothing you can do. I went from being 2 wins and 4 losses (not a good score, I know, but not terrible) to 2 wins and 8 losses. Each time someone rage quits I drop in elo and the chance of it happening again is increased.

Jookjah 12-09-2011 11:11 AM

u suck **** if u cant get out of 1200 elo. get better kid


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