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-   -   Hp per lvl seals > dodge seals (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=112532)

AnAnarchist 05-13-2010 12:31 PM

Hp per lvl seals > dodge seals
Ok people aren't getting this. I have tested dodge seals vs hp / per lvl seals on league craft.com. I used flat HP quints, mana regen per lvl glyphs and arm pen marks both times. My masteries were specced 0/16/14. I tested my full item build at lvl 18 and hp per/ lvl gave about 3-4% more EHP. I tested at many different lvls with the items I would have at that stage of he game. Dodge only gave more EHP till lvl 4. THEY GAVE LESS EHP for the vast majority of the game. Seriously test it out for yourself before spouting about what you've heard from top tier players.

I know its generally accepted that dodge > hp seals but frankly idk why.

I was on leaguecraft earlier and tested out hp per lvl seals vs dodge seals on my nasus build.

Dodge seals only offered very slightly more effective hp at lvls 1 to 4. At lvl 5 hp per lvl were slightly better and by lvl 18 hp per lvl provided about 3-4% more effective hp.

Not a huge difference but dodge runes are no use against towers either so I'd really have to say hp per lvl are significantly better than dodge seals.

Now obviously results will vary depending on armor / mag resist and health amounts but it seems to me like you'd need to have an extremely tanky build for dodge runes to give a greater effect than hp per lvl runes and even then dodge doesn't work against towers!

Test it out yourself on leaguecraft and you'll see better for yourselves the figures involved.

Some plus points to compare for each.

Dodge seals
Dodges on its affects.
Dodge helps the nimbleness mastery.
Gives more effective hp lvls 1-4ish.

Hp/per lvl seals
Gives more effective hp lvls 5 -18.
Less random.
Helps with tower damage.

These days I'm of the opinion that the two options are very near identical. Often times it comes down to whether you have any abilities that benefit from dodge / HP. People only think dodge is better because they sometimes see a dodge save their lives. When they pack HP / per lvl and escape with barely any health they're less inclined to think the seals just saved them.

I will say this however. If you don't get nimbleness i.e. 9 in the defence tree then I'd say HP / per lvl is better. So for most casters who go 9/0/21 the HP / per lvl seals are better imo.

Also for tanks, although they will pick up nimbleness, HP / per lvl are probably better as auto attackers tend not to focus you. Also a nimbleness proc is generally less useful on tanks anyways.

If you look at it like that then DPS going 21/9/0 are probably the only ones who really benefit more from dodge seals.

Carados 05-13-2010 12:36 PM


A) You don't tank towers unless you're stacking EHP, so you may as well get dodge anyways because it provides the most mitigation for runes.

B) Armor is a ****ty version of dodge. MR is blue, not yellow.

C) If you need HP runes, you get flat HP. HP runes are only effective during laning, so flat is best.

D) The amount of HP you get late game from HP/level is insignicant, while the amount of HP you get from HP/Flat is a large chunk at level 1, allowing you to get easy first bloods, avoid ganks, and win level 1 team fights.

E) This game snowballs. If you want HP runes, you want it when you're most likely to be harassed, when you're laning while farming. If you need defense past that, mitigating the carry, the person who has been farming the entire game.

F) Nimbleness is really good.

G) Dodge dodges on hit effects. HP/Level doesn't.

EchoRex 05-13-2010 12:37 PM

Because dodge eliminates damage, it increases your survivability exponentially more than a few dozen hit points will.

HP Runes are taken early game to help with laning, which means Flat HP runes > HP/Level.

In all aspects, HP/Level loses.

Kajitii 05-13-2010 12:40 PM

Let's not forget about healers! HP/lvl is just more HP for them to heal, which is not as effective as if you never took damage at all.

AnAnarchist 05-13-2010 12:47 PM

Ok so lets compare plus points.

Dodge seals
Dodges on its affects.
Dodge helps the nimbleness mastery.
Gives more effective hp lvls 1-4ish.

Hp/per lvl seals
Gives more effective hp lvls 5 -18.
Less random.
Helps with tower damage.

Personally considering how significant towers are and the fact that you get more effective hp with the hp runes for the vast majority of the match I'd say the hp runes are better.

Eppa 05-13-2010 12:48 PM

I prefer Hp/lvl but dodge has it's uses. Hp helps vs casters aswell.

Carados 05-13-2010 12:49 PM

You could say they are "More effective at 5-18," but those of us who actually build good items realize that the amount of HP that HP/Level gives you is trivial at all points in the game.

And dodge is better 1-18. Flat HP is better 1-4.

And you're wrong about towers. Still.

Eppa 05-13-2010 12:49 PM

exporting this


Originally Posted by Mapekz (Hozzászólás 1284171)
These guys are saying yes because early on that chunk of HP makes up a larger % of your max HP, but later on when you start gearing out and getting HP from items the rune-based HP will be a significantly smaller % of your total HP, becoming barely noticeable.

Hp runes fill 2 functions 1 lvl one dominance, 2 surviving lvl 6 burst. Since your opponent doesn't have a huge advantage (36hp you should have flat hp quints) you can easily hold of until 5 when you gain the advantage.

The difference is so minute and really doesn't matter a huge deal.

Also (according to larias) you can't dodge ww ulti...

elmins 05-13-2010 01:19 PM

Dodging on-hit effects is pretty **** useful, e.g. TF's gold card.

Adalonus 05-13-2010 01:50 PM

Dodge is amazing for everything previously stated

HP/lvl shouldnt matter. the amount you get is so small early game that its useless, late game spend a bit of gold to get an item.

I'd rather have dodge and Flat HP and get a great early game to get my build started than have a **** early game and have to face a mejai stack.

The fact that HP/Lvl helps with turrets is not an argument. you shouldn't be hit by turrets... unless your tower diving. and if you tower dive you shouldn't have to rely on HP/lvl to keep you alive. If you do, you're being way to reckless.

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