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-   -   Sumo Gragas: Tank/DPS/support Hybrid Build! (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=94056)

reziel 04-15-2010 04:47 PM

[GUIDE] Sumo Gragas: Tank/DPS/support Hybrid Build!
 
Alright. Sometimes I make a guide and I fill it with fluff. That is not this guide. I can assure you this build works in the hands of a skilled player. It will not stop Gragas from being a low-to-mid tier character overall, but it will arm you with the knowledge you need to do as well as a Gragas can expect to do. Straight to the meat this time, followed by some explanation:

Masteries:

0/21/9 (only important part is the 21 in defense)

Runes: Flexible. Personally I use my caster runepage, which is Magic Pen Red, HP/Lvl Yellow, Ability Power/LvL blue, and Ability Power/LvL quintessences, which gives me:

51 Ability Power at lvl 18
162 health at lvl 18
8.5 magic pen

If I had a solid armor pen or +damage rune page, I would attempt those instead and see how they go. As it is, Gragas has good AP ratios on Barrel Roll and Explosive Cask, so at lvl 18 the runes will provide around 100 extra damage between one usage of each. Fair enough.

Summoner Spells:


I use ghost and cleanse. This allows me to move in and out of battles extremely easily with body slam, and chase better than perhaps any character in the game besides Nidalee (And even that is questionable; Body Slam can go through walls, panther leap is too short to do that).

Items:

In order. . .

Mana Sapphire + 2x health potion --> Sheen
Boots of Speed --> Mercury Treads
Leviathan
Stinger
Aegis of the Legion
Sunfire Cape

If the game goes on past then (most of the time you will get all of these somewhere between 30-40 minutes), upgrade the stinger to Nashor's Tooth and then the Sheen to a Trinity Force. You don't really have a whole lot of options after that point, I suppose you could sell the Aegis and get an item for whatever stat you need most in your specific game.

To speed up the survivability component of this build, or if you prefer to accumulate Leviathan charges early, you can go:

Mana Sapphire + 2x health potion --> Sheen
Boots of Speed
Leviathan
- - then, upgrade boots to Mercury treads.

As a poster pointed out, in a more organized team it is to your team's benefit to get an Aegis ASAP, in which case you might want to build it as your 4th item before stinger, or even before Levi.

Skill Order:

Body Slam
Drunken Rage
Body Slam
Barrel Roll
Body Slam
Explosive Cask
Body Slam
Barrel Roll
Body Slam
. . . Then level up Explosive Cask first, Barrel Roll second, and Drunken Rage last.

"But Reziel", you might say, "Why leave Drunken Rage at rank 1 when this build appears to want as much attack damage as possible?" Well, simple. The difference between ranks is so small compared to the benefit from upgrading Barrel Roll that it's not worth it. Higher ranks of barrel roll alongside rank 5 Body Slam gives you much, much more burst than an opponent might expect.

Strategy:

You start out the game playing fairly conservatively. Throw a body slam at an opponent who gets close without any apparent way to burst you down, but otherwise last hit and stay safe for a few levels.

As soon as you get drunken rage, spam it to keep your mana and HP up (because of your passive). Body slam will deal more damage while you have drunken rage on, as well as (obviously) your auto attacks.

Around lvl 4, if you see an opening, you and your lane partner should play aggressively. Body Slam with rage up, combined with ghost and melee-range barrel rolls between body slams, can very rapidly rack up damage on a target while keeping them snared for the majority of the time. Body Slam also makes Gragas much more mobile than most opponents suspect, able to rapidly engage combat from range. Body Slam can even be a good way to harass against melee enemies because then you can run away immediately afterward while they are snared.

Lvl 6 is when you can begin to seriously rack up kills with good planning. People hanging out in their tower at half HP can be brought down with a well placed explosive cask, followed by a body slam at their landing spot and a barrel roll in the direction they will run. People who overextend into farming, or who are too close to your tower, can also be killed this way. The cask gives you significantly greater lane control, for however much longer the laning phase lasts in your game.

Do not forget to help your teammates as you approach lvl 9-10. Body Slam is good damage output, but a constantly snared opponent is certain to die in a 2v1; nobody should be able to handle two opponents at once yet at this phase of the game.

Grab Lizard or Golem whenever you get the chance if nobody on your team is getting them, or help a teammate by tanking it. Spamming body slam will kill them reasonably quickly.

As the game progresses, make it a goal to avoid death whenever possible. Racking up leviathan charges should be a priority. Remember that assists give 2 charges just like a kill. You don't need to kill an enemy, just participate with a roll or a slam, so team fights that you survive should net you a few hundred more HP.

By end game, you should be very difficult to kill, as well as supporting your team very well with frequent snares, moderate burst and damage, an ult that can turn the tide of a team battle, and your stunning good looks.

Ideal end game scenario is a 20x stack leviathan. With all the items, you should have the following stat loadout:

3000+ HP
57-60% reduction to damage from armor/MR.
Then. . .
26% reduction from Drunken Rage
15% reduction from Leviathan
4% from 21 point Defense mastery.
And HP that should be regenerating at an additional pace of about 1% per second in combat due to constant ability usage and the passive.

I believe that this scenario is one of the hardiest possible tanks in the game besides Alistar with his ult up, and you don't even need to buy all tank items to do it.


IMPORTANT SKILLS TO PRACTICE AS GRAGAS:

Body Slamming where you think the opponent will be, instead of where they are now.

Moving at an angle from your opponent and then Body Slamming back in their direction, to avoid hitting minions while chasing.

Body Slamming through walls quickly; you don't have time to plan while running, and if you screw up the distance required, Gragas will just fumble into the wall and you will probably die.

Body Slamming through walls to hit people as they go around corners and into fog of war (or out of vision, whichever you prefer to call it). You need to have a good grasp of roughly how fast a champion moves, with and without boots.

Barrel Rolling where the opponent will be, while accounting for the slight delay before explosion upon arriving at the destination. This can be tricky, but it gets easier in melee range.

Remembering to Drunken Rage pretty much all the time, but make sure to save it for just before a team fight if you anticipate one.

Explosive Cask timing AND angle of knockback. This is probably the most skill-intensive part of playing Gragas. The delay before explosion takes a bit of use before understanding exactly how long it will take; in addition, if it lands to the side of an opponent, it may just knock them slightly forward and spend most of the power sending them into a wall, potentially making your situation worse, not better. Using this ability requires a good grasp of LoL's "physics" and champion's run speeds.

Understanding that it is easier to guarantee the direction of a cask knockback by hitting your opponent at the perimeter of the explosion radius than it is to land it directly behind them. There is no damage bonus to hitting them on their head, so play it safe and prioritize the knockback direction.

Last hitting as a melee champion. This is harder than as a ranged champion. Some of you will suck at this forever. Sorry.

Cleaning out LARGE creep waves with body slam and barrel roll. This isn't hard. But it's good to recognize an opportunity to rake in cash.


EDIT: While it was written for Summoner's Rift (5v5), this guide applies pretty much identically to a game on Twisted Treeline, except for items: Aegis loses a lot of its power when each team drops to three members, so I would recommend skipping it. While I do not have a definitive build worked out for this yet, I still feel Leviathan is worth building, and that offense is at more of a premium while building late game items (if that phase is reached).

Enjoy. Ask questions or comment!

TheHegemuffin 04-15-2010 05:24 PM

Yo, I really didn't do more than just skim over your guide, but I particularly like the 6 levels in Body Slam.

reziel 04-15-2010 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHegemuffin (Hozzászólás 1051402)
Yo, I really didn't do more than just skim over your guide, but I particularly like the 6 levels in Body Slam.

Thank you. Was kind of trying to write this quickly and accidentally threw in an extra. It looked wrong at a passing glance but I didn't feel like taking the time to figure it out.

Joebags 04-15-2010 06:27 PM

interesting build, and it looks fun to try. However, drunken rage is really gragas's best ability. No clue why you would level it last. Wouldn't you rather get +70 AD and -26% damage taken by level 9 than have body slam hit for an extra 100 damage? Plus, body slam scales with AD anyways, so a higher level drunken rage will make it hit harder anyways.

reziel 04-15-2010 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joebags (Hozzászólás 1051891)
interesting build, and it looks fun to try. However, drunken rage is really gragas's best ability. No clue why you would level it last. Wouldn't you rather get +70 AD and -26% damage taken by level 9 than have body slam hit for an extra 100 damage? Plus, body slam scales with AD anyways, so a higher level drunken rage will make it hit harder anyways.

It scales by 66%. It will hit for approximately 46 more damage with drunken rage up, rank 5.

A higher rank body slam has a significantly larger chunk of flat bonus damage, which is the real reason you level it up first. The scaling is just a nice bonus.

Plus, you most likely don't have the attack speed boost from stinger yet at lvl 9 to make Drunken Rage really hurt. If you do, then the other team is seriously feeding. A lot.

-26% damage taken while you still only have 1200~ or so HP is an effective 300-ish HP. Noticeable, but not world-shatteringly amazing, especially if you get caught with it down or it wears off and you can't afford to chug in the middle of a chase / flee.

In the end it's going to be a matter of opinion; but I am convinced that maxing body slam first is the best way to rapidly increase Gragas' damage output because you will seldom have a chance to maintain melee range long enough to make a max rank Drunken Rage just as effective.

The mana restore increase in particular is pretty negligible between ranks, also.

reziel 04-16-2010 05:00 AM

Bump for some re-exposure to comments and criticism. Darn me and forgetting the [GUIDE] tag every time.

Baroes 04-16-2010 05:37 AM

Bump, GRAGAS!!!!!!

nicosharp 04-16-2010 08:17 AM

Your item build looks good.

Few questions:
Do you feel you have mana problems at or around lvls 4-18?
Why AP runes if you do not go AP items, and if you do not go Spell Pen mastery?
Most teams need an early Aegis for an advantage in early teamfights, do you ever build it prior to a 5th item?

It's true that Drunken Rage is not as important for your build, as you do not rush Leviathan. If you rush Leviathan, its nice to have rage maxed by 11-12 so that you can quickly get to a constant 45% mitigation with 35%+ CD reduction through items.

reziel 04-17-2010 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicosharp (Hozzászólás 1055860)
Your item build looks good.

Few questions:
Do you feel you have mana problems at or around lvls 4-18?
Why AP runes if you do not go AP items, and if you do not go Spell Pen mastery?
Most teams need an early Aegis for an advantage in early teamfights, do you ever build it prior to a 5th item?

It's true that Drunken Rage is not as important for your build, as you do not rush Leviathan. If you rush Leviathan, its nice to have rage maxed by 11-12 so that you can quickly get to a constant 45% mitigation with 35%+ CD reduction through items.


Thanks. That means something from a yellow text fellow.


In order:

Very rarely. My playstyle flatly discourages barrel roll use outside of melee combat. Using it as harass against healthy opponents guarantees mana problems, it's just way too inefficient. Using it as an additional nuke only while in melee body-slam combat is the most effective usage (in my opinion). Only time that using it to harass is acceptable is if you got golem.

As I said, runes are pretty flexible, and if I had a page more suited to this playstyle I might use it. I use them simply because my other page is even worse for the job. I assume when you say I don't get AP items you are excluding Sheen (and later, Nashor's Tooth), which I can understand. Aside from spreading your damage around more instead of placing it all in your auto attacks and slam, no, there is no particularly strong reason to use the page I use. You make a good point actually; if I'm going to use my AP page I might as well throw those 9 points in offense instead of utility. I'll give it a shot.

I tried building it as my third item, and as my fourth. I felt that not building leviathan early on left you without charges late game (because you won't have it during the first major team fights), so I moved that to first priority. I then tried making the Aegis fourth, but I found that my damage output was falling noticeably behind in usefulness without a stinger, so I decided to get stinger first. That said, I typically mid-to-high-ELO solo queue or queue with one or two friends (with no real organization between us besides chatting on vent about how LAME that kill on one of us was). Without intense very-early game teamwork, a late aegis works out a bit better. You know as well as I do that random pubs tend to push later in the game than an organized team.

So I guess the answer is "I make Aegis late because I don't trust pubs". Fair enough?

Yes, I imagine if I were to adjust the build to rush Leviathan (perhaps finish the Mercury Treads later?), having high rank drunken rage to pair with it would be the better choice. Perhaps worth testing.

Thanks for your input.

imbri 04-17-2010 02:06 PM

Nice guide. Haven't played him in a while, but tempted now.


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