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-   -   Building a well rounded team for ranked (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=684843)

Neokenfu 04-22-2011 03:07 PM

Building a well rounded team for ranked
 
Greetings,

I'm looking to buy champs to add to my roles so I can play everything competently in solo queue. Here is what I'm solid with so far:

Xin Zhao, Nocturne, Malphite and Maokai.

Decent but still shaky: Garen, Vlad, and Miss Fortune.

I need at least 3 champs(4 if one gets banned a lot) for each role as I define them(Tank, AD Ranged, AD Melee, Mage, Jungler, and Support).

Tank: Malphite(banned a lot at my elo), Maokai, Garen(pseudo I know) and I need 1 more.

I'm think of Alistar because he is never banned at my ELO but am open to suggestions.

AD Ranged: Miss Fortune, Ashe, and ???

I'm definitely looking for more options here and this may be the role I've played the least lifetime besides support.

AD Melee: Xin Zhao, Nocturne(banned a lot), Poppy, Garen and ????

My bread and butter. I own Lee Sin also but I'm not convinced he's viable yet.

Mage: Ryze, Vlad, and ????

I just got Ryze and don't know a ton about mages either except from playing against them.

Jungler: Nocturne, Xin(before nerf), and ????

I'm debating between Olaf, Irelia, WW, and Udyr

Support: Zilean, ????, ?????, and ?????

I definitely need the most help in this category. I just bought Zilean and he'll be my first support. I'm interested in Morgana, Janna, Lux, and Teemo.

Already owned that I don't care for: Trist, & Nunu. I find them both to be really boring.

Thanks for any suggestions/advice because I'd like to be able to pick purely upon team comp every time.

preparetobeowned 04-22-2011 05:01 PM

Try learning Amumu. He's a really good jungler a good tank as well. Ryze is really good because he's tanky and his burst is pretty good and more sustained then other casters. Ashe is defnitely viable so is MF. You don't need to worry about support too much although its nice to learn them but your going to be underapreciated. Nunu is pretty boring but hes one of the best junglers.

Neokenfu 04-22-2011 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preparetobeowned (Hozzászólás 8163584)
Try learning Amumu. He's a really good jungler a good tank as well. Ryze is really good because he's tanky and his burst is pretty good and more sustained then other casters. Ashe is defnitely viable so is MF. You don't need to worry about support too much although its nice to learn them but your going to be underapreciated. Nunu is pretty boring but hes one of the best junglers.

I heard that Shen was a solid jungler as well. Maybe on the tank side I should get good with all the often banned tanks(Shen, Rammus, Amumu, already ok with Malph).

Regarding support: I've heard Zilean was near perma ban at high elo's. I just really want to win and though I enjoy carrying I don't NEED to do that. I play this game because I like how competitive it is. Anything I can do to be more competitive(improve team comp, tank, etc) is what I'm after.

Seelyon 04-23-2011 03:49 AM

General comments: Glad to see your thinking about this aspect of rank, not enough people do. Don't jungle Shen is mediocre at best, going up against a jungle Shen or similar weak jungler just makes it to easy.

Tank: With this category your best bet is to learn the 4 main tanks (Amumu, Malphite, Rammus + Shen), picking these up when they arent banned can help improved your win rate, try stay away from Shen though, hes always banned, but the other 3 not so much where im at atm. Beyond that Singed, Alistar and even Galio are all solid choices.

AD Ranged: Ashe & Corki are simply amazing at this role, MF is also strong.

AD Melee: You want beefy champions here, Xin Zhao is a good choice already, look towards Renekton, Jarvan and Nasus

Mage: Try get some with CC, its a very strong game aspect, Ryze is very powerful at the moment and is a great choice, but we will see where that goes. Vlad is a great pick but is easily countered by a good team, consider Lux, Malzahar and Annie.

Jungle: Try not to jungle xin, hes better in a lane, same with irelia. Olaf, WW and Udyr should be your picks here, also look into Amumu (ties in with tank role aswell. I also would suggest Nunu here as hes a great invasion jungler but you've posted you don't like him, which is fair enough.

Support: Zilean, Taric & Janna.

Hope that gives you some champions to look into, sorry if its a bit all over the place, im in a rush.

Vitan 04-23-2011 01:38 PM

Don't focus on team roles, focus on counter roles, chances are every ranked game you'll have someone who picks a really solid hero on the other team.

Instead of looking at what your team "needs" look at what would do the most damage to the other team. They have a brand and a mf against you? Don't worry about filling in an AP damage on your team when they're all AD. Worry about how you're going to stop that mf or the brand from dominating.

I file heroes under what they stop.

"Anti-ashe" If you can kill ashe with a hero you can kill any ranged AD, and most AP casters. And i don't mean 1v1, i mean in the heat of battle where 5 people could target you and burst you down. My favorite heroes for this job are as follows...

Heroes: Poppy, Garen, Eve, Kassadin

You'll notice the trend is with either high mobility or near-invulnerability with at least one silence/stun.


"Anti-Mundo" Harder to counter than the "ashes", but it's good to have a few heroes fleshed out for this job, especially when you go up against a bruiser/brawler team of 5 tanky dps.

Heroes: Miss Fortune, Ashe, Teemo, Vlad

You'll notice the trend here is the ability to kite and harass. With heavyweight teams you want to play the gorilla warfare game, never going toe-to toe.


As a closing note:
Despite LoL ranked being wholly draft pick people still seem to ignore the advantages this style of hero selection offers. So many teams scream, carp, and moan about how they have no tank, how they have too many AP, or too many AD. You shouldn't give a **** about what makes a balanced team, a balanced team is pointless, you want a team that cuts through your opponents team.

Take every advantage you can, I could write alot more on counter picking, but I feel like this covers the basics. OFC never play a hero you're bad with just to fill a role, balance or counter. Anyways, I have an immense anti-tank bias. I feel they're pointless heroes that serve a role only in 5v5 pre-mades when a team can work as a team. Solo queue is 5% teamwork, 95% personal initiative.

censoredGG 04-23-2011 01:55 PM

Try corki or TF for ranged carry>?

Neokenfu 04-23-2011 01:56 PM

First off, thanks for the replies.

Quote:

Instead of looking at what your team "needs" look at what would do the most damage to the other team. They have a brand and a mf against you? Don't worry about filling in an AP damage on your team when they're all AD. Worry about how you're going to stop that mf or the brand from dominating.
Is it not better to be balanced so they can't just build to counter a damage type since that effects everyone instead of individual match-up counters? That's interesting though and an idea I will take into consideration. I guess in an ideal world compositionally you'd have a balanced team and one who is a good counter comp for their team as well. Have you really had such success with that style that you beast 2 tank 3 carry types of matchups?

Quote:

Take every advantage you can, I could write alot more on counter picking, but I feel like this covers the basics. OFC never play a hero you're bad with just to fill a role, balance or counter. Anyways, I have an immense anti-tank bias. I feel they're pointless heroes that serve a role only in 5v5 pre-mades when a team can work as a team. Solo queue is 5% teamwork, 95% personal initiative.
I guess I usually roll with duo these days to lessen the moron factor. I think tanks are amazing and really make or break your 5 v 5 or 4 v 5 battles. I agree though that people should pick what they are good at over what role is needed most of the time.

That is in part why I'm asking these questions though because I want to know what I need to get good at to be most effective. What champs have you found that are great counters for specific common champs and good at completing comp besides the ones you have listed?

malphismia 04-23-2011 04:04 PM

Buy Irelia, I play her exactly like how I play Xin when I jungle both (although different builds lol). She will seem underpowered to Xin at first because she is more squishy, and requires better timing. But she will be better than Xin lategame when you master her.

Play amumu, bandage + ult is basically malphite ult. Just learn the skillshot. Malphite got nerfed hard with ground slam scaling, shield nerf, and Heart of gold nerf. Basically amumu is better now in every way.

For ranged DPS, pick someone with CC. Twisted Fate is probably your best option.

For mage, pick up Annie. No reason not to master this champ, RIOT will never change her because theyve already stated she is the gold standard when it comes to examples of champion balance.

Vitan 04-23-2011 04:35 PM

"Balanced team comp" is the mantra for 90% of LoL. It wouldn't be so bad if people took it with a grain of salt, but most people don't. And at heart, with a system like draft pick there is absolutely no reason to form a balanced team comp. Think about what a balanced team comp looks for:

Tank, off tank, ranged carry, support, tanky-dps or support dps.

Shen, Nunu, Ashe, Zilean, Xin

This is a strong team comp, it brings slows, stuns, mobility, everything. This comp well played is unstoppable. But lets be realistic. In solo queue you'll never get a perfect team that picks these heroes and is good with them. It's foolish to plan around something like that, a 1 in 10 chance, 1 in 100.

In solo queue most fights are decided outside the "team fight" arena. Usually they are just 5+tower v 5, and very little happens UNTIL you pick one off. This is the point of building a counter-team. You kill one enemy hero in the jungle, or an enemy hero that overextends, and you've won that push.

So how does this relate to Draft Pick?

You wait until you see a hero you can exploit. I love brand, I instalock eve when I see a brand becuase no matter what he's dead. This is the spirit that wins games. As eve it doesn't matter if i have a weak endgame, on-par with brand I can kill him 90% of the time.

The key is to exploit exploit exploit. Team fights aren't all they seem, jungle ganks are where battles are won.

I'd rather have a 4v5 with an unbalanced comp than a 5v5 with two balanced comps.

In the rare event the other team gets a strong ridic balanced comp, 4v5 will still throw them off. They loose ashe and that means you can target zilean and force his ult on himself in the 4v5, when he does that it's gg. They loose zilean and the same thing happens.

Honestly I've found Eve to be the best all-around champ for this, as long as they have 1-2 heroes like a brand, ashe, ect that you can exploit you're good.

Honestly any hero will work though, you just need to have the correct mindset, you're out to catch people in the jungle AND THEN PUSH! not just say "guys we need to push, they have 2 towers and we have zero!"

Xin is a fine hero, hell, just keep a ward on the blue buff in the enemy jungle and you can accomplish an easy win. It's literally that simple.

Teleport is also useful if you use a hero with low mobility/stealth factors.

Pastrytime 04-23-2011 07:43 PM

I recently wrote up a table that loosely classified all the champs in the game into categories would anyone be interested in seeing it? It's an easy reference if you want to play a champ in a certain area and need to know all your options.

Any interest? Will post it if so.


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