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-   -   Ashe pro's - I need help! (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=678745)

Fizzmopper 04-19-2011 10:29 PM

Ashe pro's - I need help!
 
Hi all,
I am a new player and have been playing pretty much just Ashe. I have watched all the vids and read most of the guides for Ashe and I feel like I have gotten my beginning (lvl 1-10) and end game (lvl 16-18) Ashe pretty well perfected w.r.t gear and k/d ratio (always positive).

But, I am struggling with the mid game Ashe, lvls 10 - 16 and usually because of this phase wind up with a K/D ratio that is equal or +/- 1 on either side.

I find that right when all the team fights start that I am too squishy, don't do enough damage, and can't avoid ganks that I wind up going like 1-2 K/D or 1-4 depending on how much I participate in team fights.

I would prefer to stay mid lane farming minions until I have enough money for the real good upgrades, but by that time it is too risky because of enemy champs passing through from top/bottom.

What I would like to do is improve my mid level game so that I can avoid those deaths and net some more kills.

So, any Ashe players out there feeling the mid-game blues and have any advice on how to keep leveling up, getting money, gear, kills without getting dying or getting ganked??

Thanks,
Fizzmopper

Xliz 04-20-2011 12:15 AM

Hi

Here how i play Ashe as later game and believe me i own them, not once or 2 times i turn the game at 180 degrees and got win with 1,2 or none tower at mine side.

1st i get Brawler's Gloves + 2 HP potions - immidietly when you got 1100gold > turn back to base and buy 2xAvarice Blade - with this you got 10g per 10 sec. Save money for another Avarice Blade and boots. In 15-20 mins you will got 4xAvarice Blade and Berserker's Greaves. With this you got 90% crit chance and 20g per 10 sec.
Next thing is to save money for B.F.Sword. And the list of next few items is:
>Infinity Edge
>>Phantom Dancer
>>>Phantom Dancer
>>>>The Black Cleaver
>>>>>The Bloodthirster

Last item is random, i mean, no matter, you will kill with 2-3 shots. You can pick some def item like Warmog's Armor or Banshee's Veil. Or be brutal and get another The Bloodthirster or Last Whisper.
Of course when you start to buy the upper list you will sell one by one Avarice Blade.
Try it
Good luck and Have Fun

Mikhal 04-20-2011 12:49 AM

Well, depends on what Elo you are on... but the build that Xliz suggested isn't likely to work well all the time... much less at higher Elo.

I highly suggest simply going for either brutalizer or B.F. sword early on... if you have all that crit, but no damage, you still would have problems mid game.

Most Ashe builds I see at my level go boots 1 and then rushes an IE followed by PD or Banshee's after getting boots 2.

NickPham 04-20-2011 12:55 AM

Can't tell if post above me is serious, but I'm sure someone else will point out why this is so...

The general core build would be
Dorans Blade (up to 3x)
Boots
BF Sword
Swiftness/Merc/Zerkers
Infinity Edge
Phantom Dancer
Banshees
Last Whisper/Bloodthirster
Bloodthirster/Last Whisper

Obviously you must adjust as needed. I very frequently find myself buying 3x dorans simply because I need the health, or taking both hexdrinker and wits end because I'm getting focused by nukers. Otherwise I mostly take advantage of my awesome movespeed runes, which I'm going to assume you don't have, but don't worry too much about that.

For your level of play you will want ghost/teleport.

Early Game
You have insane range, last hit and harrass if u can. If you can better learn how not to die.

Mid Game
You have insane range and are a moderate to outstanding ganker. Your arrow can initiate battles by isolating an enemy, be liberal with it, but remember what angle you are shooting from. An arrow shot from your fountain is at a much better angle for long range than from middle tower. Remember you can shoot it then teleport for interesting effects.

Late Game
Meh you're Ashe you know what you need done.

General play:
I would assume that you as a new player lack two things. Map awareness and spacial awareness. Map awareness is what it is, you need to know where enemies can come from, especially considering how squishy you are. Spacial awareness is what will really bring you to new levels with Ashe. The basics behind this is if O is your team, X is your enemies, and you are A:

A O X => is how it should always look. If you are properly itemized, you hit hard and they will try to target you, so you gotta really dance around and kite heavily. It's difficult to understand, but everyone has experienced a situation where a squishy carry desperately needs to be focused, but if you chase, you get mauled by tanks, and when you attack the rest of the team the beast carry comes back and rapes you all. You wanna be that carry.

PS: Real men play tanks and supports. That's simply the best way to get lots of wins in low level play. People who can carry after getting a solo game are a dime a dozen. People who can spam all of Zilian's skills on all the right people are gold (I'm not one, but GOL LEE I know some).

Fizzmopper 04-20-2011 01:27 AM

Thanks for the responses.
I am lvl 11 so I have been thinking that once I hit 14 with flash mid game will be a lot easier, but that is good advice about stacking the doran's blades. In general I just farm and farm until I have enough to go straight for IE, so that is likely my problem so I will try to spread it out a bit.

Re "Real men play tanks and supports"
Recommend me some. I have tried several other characters from caster to tank to melee and found them all pretty boring compared to Ashe.

Astral Yorae 04-20-2011 03:23 AM

I usually play Ashe more as a Suport/Slower/Stunner.
I go for at least 21 Utillity Mastery, and get clarivoyance mastery also.
As spells, I get Clarivoyance and either Teleport, Fortify, Cleanse or Ghost Walk.
The items I get are situational, but let's say the enemy team have tanks, AD damage dealers and AP damage dealers.

I try to get surviability, with some resists and health. The items below are not in order. The order also varies (for example, if there is a karthus, I will need Magic Resist and health sooner).
1- Boots (the type depends on match. Can be Swiftness, Mercury or even Ninja)
2- Frozen Mallet or Trinity Force, depending of how much HP you want. TF synergises with Manamune also
3- Atma Impaler (if I will get more HP later) or Frozen Hearth
4- Force of Nature, Banshee (it boots also both Atma and Manamune, if you plan getting last one) or Quick Silver Sash (if a lot of CC on enemy team, it's WAY better than banshee)
The last 2 items varies more:
If I need mana, I usually get Manamune or Frozen Hearth.
If I want damage, I go for Infinity Edge and/or Last Whisper.
If I need more survviability, I get: Wamorg (if they have True Damage, armos does not metter), Banshee (if the casters are the main harassers) or Raduim Omem (or Frozen Hearth/Atma).
If I need speed, I get Trinity Force. I prefer it over PD, because Volley have a short Cooldown. That said, I can reach 100% critical with her passive. As I don't autoattack much (usually to slow a chaser or a fleeing champ), I prefer to harass with volley and deliver a 100% critical attack once in a while, that with the IE and TF bonuses, deals a lot of damage.

With Clarivoyance, you can focus in maxing W and Q first. Later, with Hawk and Clarivoyance, you can "scout" a huge part of map, every few seconds (less than a minute). When you are chasing and the fleeing enemy will enter a bush, use one of them, so your team can keep attacking withou entering the bush. Also, use it before entering a bush yourselves, when you think the enemies can be there. When entering jungle, I let a kawk travel the way I will, so I know if there is any enemy in my way. Such scouting will allow you to not be surprise attacked, or your team mates.

So, my role with that setup is a scout, slower/suport and last as a damage dealer. Your ulti can help a lot by stunning them also, don't waste it. Use either to finish a weak champ (know the damage you can do before trying, and check your target's HP and Magic Resist and do a fast calculation), to start a gank with their carries stunned or to help in scape.
Best lane for you is mid. That way, you can use Clarivoyance to detect the possible spot a weak champ will use to teleport back to heal, and strike him with your ulti.


I play solo and many times I get flamed because of that build, but it works pretty well and you won't die, unless they REALLY want to kill you. Of course, many times in solo you get a team with suicidal carries, and of course, it's NEVER their fault and they will try to flame someone else. As you use a "unusual build", it will usually be you. So, play wise and don't feel bad if they flame you, if you know you are not doing mistakes.

Eledhan 04-20-2011 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fizzmopper (Hozzászólás 8090275)
Hi all,
I am a new player and have been playing pretty much just Ashe. I have watched all the vids and read most of the guides for Ashe and I feel like I have gotten my beginning (lvl 1-10) and end game (lvl 16-18) Ashe pretty well perfected w.r.t gear and k/d ratio (always positive).

But, I am struggling with the mid game Ashe, lvls 10 - 16 and usually because of this phase wind up with a K/D ratio that is equal or +/- 1 on either side.

I find that right when all the team fights start that I am too squishy, don't do enough damage, and can't avoid ganks that I wind up going like 1-2 K/D or 1-4 depending on how much I participate in team fights.

I would prefer to stay mid lane farming minions until I have enough money for the real good upgrades, but by that time it is too risky because of enemy champs passing through from top/bottom.

What I would like to do is improve my mid level game so that I can avoid those deaths and net some more kills.

So, any Ashe players out there feeling the mid-game blues and have any advice on how to keep leveling up, getting money, gear, kills without getting dying or getting ganked??

Thanks,
Fizzmopper

I find that grabbing the CDR boots makes Ashe's mid-game much better by allowing her to fire arrows so often. This keeps her at the back of her team and is much safer until she gets more damage / defense to discourage enemy attacks.

Check out my guide, The Team Queen for a mini-guide for new players. It's found near the end of the guide, and is quite useful for someone who is not at level 30 yet.

The guide can be found HERE

Fizzmopper 04-20-2011 10:49 PM

Ha thanks Eledhan!
I read your guide literally right after posting my last message. I had read almost all the others but found yours to be the best wrt Queen Ashe and a guide on how to play when you aren't 30!

Thanks dude!

Fizzmopper 04-20-2011 11:33 PM

Actually one other question I was wondering about. Ashe's Enchanted Crystal ult is dependent on magic (and I am assuming her Q and E too) but all the builds are for attk speed and damage. Is it worth getting any AP items there to get better ult damage? 650 dmg is the max level if I remember correctly, so if you had 500 AP that is a 1150 dmg ult on a relatively short CD....

Celetial 04-21-2011 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fizzmopper (Hozzászólás 8090275)
Hi all,
I am a new player and have been playing pretty much just Ashe. I have watched all the vids and read most of the guides for Ashe and I feel like I have gotten my beginning (lvl 1-10) and end game (lvl 16-18) Ashe pretty well perfected w.r.t gear and k/d ratio (always positive).

But, I am struggling with the mid game Ashe, lvls 10 - 16 and usually because of this phase wind up with a K/D ratio that is equal or +/- 1 on either side.

I find that right when all the team fights start that I am too squishy, don't do enough damage, and can't avoid ganks that I wind up going like 1-2 K/D or 1-4 depending on how much I participate in team fights.

I would prefer to stay mid lane farming minions until I have enough money for the real good upgrades, but by that time it is too risky because of enemy champs passing through from top/bottom.

What I would like to do is improve my mid level game so that I can avoid those deaths and net some more kills.

So, any Ashe players out there feeling the mid-game blues and have any advice on how to keep leveling up, getting money, gear, kills without getting dying or getting ganked??

Thanks,
Fizzmopper

I carried from 800s to 1300s elo with about 80 ranked Ashe games. I think the major two parts for an Ashe is laning and team fight. She is very squishy, so learning to dodge, kite, and keep range is very fundamental to play a good Ashe. It startse from laning to team fight. The expectation is that you should be able to dodge everything that is not a targeted skill.

In order to play her well, I suggest you to play a lot of normal games and try to kite well in team fight to the point that you never die. Keep times of death under 3 is a requirement.

As for mid game. You need to know that you are aiming for about 90~120 farm at around 15~20 min. You want an Infinity Edge done before 25 min mark as a solo laner. With that weapon, you should be able to kill people extremely well if you did not get killed first in the team fight. It will crash the enemy during mid game if you farm that well.

I personally feel that Ashe needs that dominance between 25~40 min, when she can just completely dominate in every team fight. Ashe is not very easy to play if the game lasts more than a hour to finish because by then it is way too hard to say who's gonna win.

Map awareness and team fight awareness are very important for carry players. To avoid ganks, you have to know how to last hit, not to push over your minions and get out of position. Learn to use your champ spell correctly to survive ganks. With all your slows, you have much less trouble to avoid ganks than mf and sivir.

Team fight, you need to know how to kite their tanks and slow and dmg most people with your volley. You do not want to tank anything. You want to dps anything that you can safely dps. If you can pull that off, you are pretty decent Ashe.


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