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-   -   It's not tanky DPS - it's tanky items. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=637192)

AnyOtherEnemy 04-06-2011 07:27 PM

It's not tanky DPS - it's tanky items.
The problem with this game is not tanky champions in and of themselves. What is pushing "tankiness" over the edge are the cheapness and effectiveness of mitigation items.

This isn't an issue at high level play because very good players know how to take advantage of the early game weakness of the strategy to the fullest extent and simply win the game. For the average skill player, this is not the case. Aggressive play is not well rewarded for the average skill player in this game.

Furthermore, as the game goes on, the gold advantage established through "better play" becomes insignificant in a balanced game compared to the gold taken in from pure farming the lanes when the get to tower + passive gold. Hence, even if the other team of "tanky" champions is not doing that well, playwise, they will still get the resists and HP that they need to become the annoying anti-fun force people whine about.

The problem items are:

Giant's Belt - +430 hp for 1110 gold. Yes Giant's belt is pretty expensive. However, I believe the gold-to-health efficieny is too good for the item when put on tanky vs traditional teams. The reason is that a large HP pool is the direct counter to burst damage. And you don't care about losing XP advantage by blue pilling to refill that pool when you're aiming for the late game, once everyone's XP has leveled out anyway.

Heart of Gold - + 200 HP, +27 armor for 975 gold (only 200 g combined but no extra HP/armor) - This item is too cheap for the benefit it gives at 975 gold total, especially given that it breaks even in about 15 minutes, which is just fine for tanky teams who are aiming to win late game anyway. Just buy two of these, tank towers mid game, and hold out until the 40 minute mark when you turn them in for a FON or build a Randuin's out of one. Cause ya know, why the **** not.

Sunfire Cape - The problem with this item isn't the additional HP/armor - it is fairly low compared to the components. The problem is that the aura is better than 800 gold. It directly synergizes with having large amounts of health and resist and no damage items, which means you can literally just stand next to your opponent while he tries to kill you and do 40 magic damage per second, AOE. Consider this: with an attackspeed of 1.0 that's 40 magic damage (AOE) compared to a BF sword gives you 50 physical attack damage on a single target for 1850 gold. No **** carries are having problems in this metagame. This aura is also what makes the Shen split push stupidly good.

Force of Nature - +76 MR (most MR on a single item), +.35% total hp regen per second, +40 HPregen/5, +8% MS. Morello complains about sustained heals being bad for this game. This item is literally a permanent sustained heal on a champion. It's like the old Locket gragas. This item is not a problem by itself, but combined with other +HP items it becomes overpowered. By its very nature it scales with health, so late game once a significant amount of health has been acquired, the regeneration cancels out ranged poking and kiting during pushes - which normally balances out tanky champions versus ranged squishy champions.

Consider this: with 3 K HP, this item gives 18 hp / second (including the innate 40HP5). Sona's level 5 heal does 175 HP heal base on a CD of 7 seconds. So in the course of 10 seconds you regen 180 HP, comparable to having a Sona sit there and heal you, permanently.

I won't bring up Warmog's since it is not a commonly bought item, but since the buffs to it, it has been more common. I'm not sure how I feel about it but I don't think it is as bad of a problem as the cheaper, more powerful items listed above.

Ensign Drej 04-06-2011 07:29 PM

Agreed. The Sunfire Cape explanation is why the passive was made unique, to be frank.
Some tanky items are too good.

AnyOtherEnemy 04-06-2011 07:37 PM

anyone? =\

Crazy Wilhelm 04-06-2011 07:59 PM

I do concur that the items are very good, but the tanky dps champs really do have formidable toolboxes of abilities and stats sans items, as well.

kwjnfkjsdg 04-06-2011 08:00 PM

i agree with your opinions on heart of gold and sunfire cape.

FoN isn't that bad, though. imo it's only good on tanks, and u shouldnt be focusing them anyways. it gives you no hp no armor, just flat magic resist. and the health regen does nothing for a tanky dps in a fight

ZXPrototype 04-06-2011 08:04 PM

There's also this thing called the DFG and executioner's calling. They are in fact more gold effeceint because they punish enemies who build said items, but simply because something is popular doesn't make it unbalanced.

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