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-   -   Vulgarity's Guide to Pantheon (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=59324)

ePiMagnets 02-11-2010 04:58 PM

Vulgarity's Guide to Pantheon
 
Pantheon – Artisan of War

Table of Contents:
1) Introduction
2) Champion Information
- Abilities
3) Pre-Game Setup
- Runes
- Masteries
- Summoner Spells
4) Skill Build
5) Item Builds
- High Damage Build
- AS build
- Survivability Hybrid
- Items to swap in based on champion match-ups
6) Early Game
7) Mid Game
8) Late Game
9) Tips

Introduction

Welcome to my first guide, I hope to be able to evolve this guide over the patches to be the best current repository for Pantheon related information. I’m aiming to build a guide that can be useful to both beginners and advanced players alike, bearing this in mind if you have any constructive advice to add please do so, if it happens to be credible and indeed useful to the play style that Pantheon possesses it will be added.

Pantheon is a capable carry as well as a capable pusher, sadly his ultimate ability is not the greatest for ganking but has a great range of utility. After getting some practice in with the ult you will begin to get a feel for the timing and placement for the ability. His passive makes early harassment against him with anything other than spells very rough, with the exception of harassment from Gangplank’s Parrrley which can be blocked.



Champion Information

Abilities:

Aegis Protection (Passive): After attacking or casting spells 4 times, Patheon will block the next normal attack that deals more than 40 damage to him.

Spear Shot – Q: Pantheon hurls his spear at an opponent dealing 30/40/50/60/70 + 100/110/120/130/140 percent of his attack in physical damage. Costs 30/35/40/45/50 Mana with a 4 second cooldown

Aegis of Zeonia – W: Pantheon leaps at the target enemy champion and deals 50/75/100/125/150 (+1 per ability power) magic damage and stuns them for 1 second. Pantheon also instantly refreshes his Aegis Protection. 70 Mana, 20/17.5/15/12.5/10 Second Cooldown

Heartseeker Strike – E: Passive: Pantheon gains 100% critical strike chance against targets below 15% of their max health.

Active: Pantheon focuses and deals 5 swift strikes in front of him for 6/9/12/15/18 + 8%/21%/24%/27%/30% of his weapon damage in physical damage per strike. This attack deals double damage to champions. 70/80/90/100/110 Mana, 30/28/26/24/22 Second Cooldown.

Grand Skyfall – R: Pantheon gathers his strength and then leaps high in to the air, crashing down at the target area a few seconds later. Deals up to 400/700/1000 (+1 per ability power) magic damage to units at the center (down to 33% at the edge) and slows them by 35% for 1 second.



Pre-game Setup

Runes: I’ve used two sets of runes with a measure of success. My first set was 9 armor penetration for red, 9 dodge for yellow and cooldown reduction for blues with 3 furor quintessence. My current setup is 9 armor penetration red, mana regen for yellow and mres for blue with the 3 armor penetration quints. Feel free to use what works best for you.

I have found the latter build to work better, allowing for greater laning potential thanks to the gain on spearshot from mana regen which allows for more harassment and last hitting of minion waves. The furor runes allow for greater synergy when you get someone below 20% health for when the passive on Heartseeker comes into play. Magic resistance helps with the early game and slightly later on though the resistance isn’t much. Armor penetration synergizes very well with Pantheon as when abilities are on cooldown he relies on his auto attack, also heartseeker and spearshot both deal physical damage rather than magic which allows for a greater synergy with armor penetration runes.

Masteries: Typically you will be using the 9/0/21, 21/9/0 or 21/0/9 build. However, I have seen an 11/0/19 build that appeared as if it would have great synergy with Pantheon, the build emphasized attack speed and armor penetration from the physical tree and followed through to the 6% CD reduction in the utility with the reasoning that the 21 point physical talent didn’t measure up to what the utility tree would bring to the table.

Summoner spells: Pantheon has some great synergy here, since any targeted summoner spells can be used while Pantheon is dropping during Grand Skyfall, hence Exhaust, Flash, Ignite all work well. With this in mind, here are the common spell choices for Pantheon:

Flash: Flash is an all around awesome spell, usable as both an offensive and defensive ability, it is pretty much a get out of jail free card, allows one to tower dive early and effectively. It can also be used to adjust Grand Skyfall when you land to put you into a better position for when you enter the fray.

Exhaust: Staple for early ganks, disabling carries and ensuring kills. This spell slows the target by 40%, blinds them for 100% miss chance for 3 seconds and if talented reduces armor and magic resist by 10 with a duration of 3.5 seconds. This spell is particularly useful for slowing a target within Grand Skyfall to guarantee a hit or follow up damage.

Ignite: Debuffs healing and regen by 50%, deals 50 +25 damage per level over 5 seconds. Another staple of the gank, tossing this on a target at low health prevents them from healing up easily and if low enough guarantees a kill.

Cleanse: Self explanatory, good for clearing those pesky stuns, slows, stuns, roots, taunts. Good if you want some extra survivability but not required.

Commonly you’ll probably want to go with Flash/Exhaust, Flash/Ignite or Exhaust/Ignite. I’ve had the best luck with Exhaust/Ignite, however your mileage may vary.


Skill Build

Typically my skill progression is as follows:

First three levels: Q,W,E

From this point I’ll decide on what route to take, if I’m being fed early or have a stunner with me I’ll focus on e for the damage, otherwise I’ll focus on Q. Thus, from level 4 on you’ll have two options. Max Q first for maximum damage and harassment or max E first for the burst damage, this is based on how well I am doing at the beginning. Typically you’ll see the progression as one of two routes.

A) Q,W,E,Q,Q,R,Q,W,Q,W,R,W,W,E,E,R,E,E
B) Q,W,E,E,E,R,E,W,E,W,R,W,W,Q,Q,R,Q,Q

Consequently, the fact that W remains at the same mana cost while Pantheon’s other two abilities scale means you could potentially max W first, but lose out on damage while gaining more utility earlier. I feel the trade-off isn’t worth the reduced cooldown on W even if it comes with a little more damage on W, especially since the stun is only 1 second at all ranks.



Item Builds:

Some item build considerations:

Last Whisper Vs. Black Cleaver - Black Cleaver stacks up to 5 times at -12 per stack while Last whisper is a % of penetration. Last Whisper offers better synergy out of the box with Pantheon as his Q and E are physical, thus you don't need to stack any debuff and gain roughly 40% more damage immediately. You also gain 40% attack speed and +25 damage, Black Cleaver gives +75 damage and no attack speed bonus. As such, avoid grabbing both since you do reduce the cost effectiveness of Last Whisper by getting Black Cleaver. For the math, see the second post on page 2 of this thread.

To go Brutalizer or not to: Brutalizer gives flat armor penetration, which means it stacks in with masteries and runes. However it is at the bottom of the stack when figuring in reduction, %pen and flat pen. It offers +15 armor reduction, 10% cooldown reduction and +25 damage for cheap. It does lose a lot of effectiveness late game and could be gold saved overall.

Bloodthirster: you're a melee carry, as a carry you will need some form of lifesteal, this item is dangerous since it is obviously better if you can stay alive, but loses effectiveness if you die (you lose all bloodthirster stacks). However, it is arguably the best melee carry damage item available and should be feasibly third or fourth item in your build.

Frozen Mallet and why: Pantheon suffers the same way most melee dps suffer. He's squishy when focused and lacks a real escape mechanism. For this reason Pantheon needs something to help with that. But why Frozen Mallet when you have other, potentially better items? Frozen Mallet offers some damage, health and more importantly one of the strongest on-hit effects next to life steal. This item will keep the enemy close enough to deal out the damage or keep them from running from your team. It's not huge damage, but it can indeed make the difference between someone escaping or netting another kill for your team.


High Output MKI: This build focuses on Pantheon's potential for high output. This was my original high output build for the build developed using Fbsunny's advice see MKII.

First Item: long sword (415) + health pot (35)
Phage (900) -> Frozen Mallet (1975)
Boots -> Beserker Greaves (920g total)
Vampiric Scepter (450) or BF Sword (1850) -> Bloodthirster (900)
Recurve Bow/long sword (1050/415) -> Last Whisper (500)
BF Sword (1850) -> Infinity Edge (2230)

Base Cost before IE: 9410
With IE: 13490

My original form for the high output build. This build seems very close to the survival build, however instead of building a tank item to go with the Frozen mallet we instead add more damage. The mallet is to be rushed first in order to bolster your health as well as helping with early kills. First trip back should be enough to finish out Phage and regular boots, if you're particularly well farmed or fed, go head and finish your boots or get the giant's belt. Your second trip will be to finish your boots and frozen mallet if you didn't do so beforehand. Third trip is especially important, here we pick up some real damage, grab your BF sword and if possible your vampiric scepter then head back out to do some damage. Trip four is finishing bloodthirster and working on Last Whisper. Should the game not be over, trip five is for Last Whisper and starting your IE. By this point the game will be over or close to it.

Here we focus on Last Whisper and the Berserker greaves for increasing your throughput by increasing your auto-attack. This is especially important while chasing since if you are lacking your frozen mallet for whatever reason you are not losing too much range on your opponent. When chasing save spear shot for your killing blow so you don't lose your opponent.


High output MKII: This build focuses on Pantheon’s potential for high output, however he is at a disadvantage as he loses some survivability.

First Item: long sword (415) + health pot (35)
Boots -> Beserker Greaves (920g total)
Vampiric Scepter (450) or BF Sword (1850) -> Bloodthirster (900)
Recurve Bow/Emblem of Valor (1050/800) -> Stark's Fervor (750)
BF Sword (1850) -> Black Cleaver (800) or Infinity Edge (2230)

Base Cost before IE/Black Cleaver: 7170
With IE: 11250
With Black Cleaver: 9820

On your first trip back you’ll ideally want to have enough gold to get your boots 1 and BF Sword (2200g), if you're a little starved, complete your boots and grab vamp scepter (total cost 1370g). Your next trip back should be to complete Bloodthirster and begin work on Stark's Fervor with either an Emblem of Valor (800g) or Recurve Bow (1050). Following this you can then work on your next BF item although most games will be close to over by this point.

The focus here is damage output, if you are getting fed early, you can get a Sword of the Occult which will be a welcome boost to Pantheon’s output. Bloodthirster is typically your largest source of damage thanks to its buff from kills. 40 kills for +100 damage and some survivability helps a lot. If the game is dragging on, look into Frozen Mallet, attack speed or more damage.


Attack Speed Build: This build focuses more on proccing Pantheon’s passive, it offers less overall damage but can allow one to tank the towers and even handle a little more damage from physical carries in melee range. It lacks damage till late game. Overall this build is far weaker, I don’t recommend it.

First item: Long Sword + health pot
Boots -> Berserker Graves
Longsword-> Last Whisper
Zeal -> Phantom Dancer
BF Sword -> Black Cleaver/Bloodthirster/IE

Base Cost before BC/BT/IE: 6315
Black Cleaver: 9380
Bloodthirster: 9515
IE: 10395

First trip back is to pick up boots and either complete them or grab boots and recurve bow. Your second trip should be to complete Last Whisper and grab zeal or begin working on zeal, lean in favor to attack speed items when you’re working on Zeal and phantom unless you particularly want more crit. Third trip is to either finish Phantom Dancer or to grab your BF Sword. This is a situation where you don’t need to worry about grabbing your big damage item till later on, you’re primary focus is building the attack speed.

The focus here is aiming to proc Aegis Protection as often as possible. Remember, every four attacks or casted abilities will allow you to block one hit over 40 damage. This includes blocking Gangplank’s Parrrley. Potentially this build would work against a heavy melee team or if you were planning on only pushing over towers, but not much else.


Survivability/Offtank: This build focuses on being a little more tanky and allowing you to take a few more hits while dishing out the damage. By rushing a Frozen Mallet you keep people in range for longer and can allow your team to chase anyone that may be getting away.

First item: Long Sword (415) + health pot (35)
Boots (350) -> Mercury Treads (850)
Phage (900) -> Frozen Mallet (1975)
BF Sword (1850) -> Bloodthirster (1350)
Guardian Angel (2600), Thornmail (2000), Banshee’s Veil (2715)*

Base Cost before your major survivability item: 7725g
Guardian Angel: 10325
Thornmail: 9725
Banshee's Veil: 10440

Rush your Frozen Mallet, I cannot stress that fact enough. This build is heavy support and being able to keep your target slowed means an almost guaranteed kill. First trip back to base should allow you to buy a Phage and boots. Your second trip should allow you to finish out the frozen Mallet and boots of choice with each subsequent trip from there to work on either your big damage item or the survivability item you want next. Remember if you are going to work on damage items before your second survival oriented item to get the biggest bang for your buck. +damage is a flat increase to your q and e abilities and should not be neglected, in this case I certainly recommend for instance taking the BF sword before vampiric scepter unless you don’t have the gold or are within 200-300g. Lastly, don't forget to turn that Longsword into something, Last whisper is a great idea for it.

As mentioned your primary goal here is for a little more survivability in fights. Depending on what you are fighting your fourth item will change. Your armor piece of choice as the fourth item will depend on the game and make-up of your opposition. Banshee’s Veil for heavy caster or disable groups, Thornmail for heavy physical or Guardian Angel just for the added safety in the event you do go down.

Items to keep in mind:
Often you’ll have to change out items based on team composition or your own personal preference. A few items to keep in mind are as follows.

1) Mercury Treads: 30 magic resist and 40% reduction of disables. These boots are a must for any heavy caster or heavy disable oriented match-up.

2) Banshee’s Veil: another item that boasts survivability. Extra health and mana with a spell shield that blocks one negative spell every 30 seconds. None too shabby.

3) Sword of the Divine: Niche weapon, really only usable against Jax with his high dodge rate. Also works well against Nidalee in cougar form and Sivir. Granted Nidalee will probably run away long before you get a chance to pop it. Also keep in mind it can work very well against squishier champions as it will bring them to lower health with the extra hundred magic damage every 4 swings and thus into range of guaranteed crits from your heartseeker passive.

4) Sword of the Occult: a snowball item, it’s pretty nice if you are getting fed or can keep around 5 stacks on it, otherwise it’s not worth much. Better off saving your gold for other items if you feel you won’t be able to stay alive long enough to keep stacks on it.

5) Brutalizer: nice damage, armor penetration and 10% cooldown reduction. It’s not a bad item and has some synergy with Pantheon’s skills. I’ll get this if I’m having a hard time farming in lane as it does at least improve your damage output.

6) Doran’s Shield: having tested using this at the beginning this item works great for helping keep you in lane longer. Health regen means you can hang back and heal back a little while staying in xp range. I prefer the long sword as my first item, but if I am sure I will have a tough lane match-up I’ll get Doran’s instead.

7) Executioner’s Calling: A must if your opponents have a healer on their side. Gives some good crit and a dot that reduces healing effectiveness by half along with lifesteal. Sadly it doesn't synergize very well since you're getting guaranteed crits from the passive on heartseeker once someone is below 20% health.

8) Sheen: with the amount that Q can be spammed sheen is a pretty solid choice to work in. The only drawback is that you may not be auto-attacking enough to take advantage of the Sheen procs. Building into Trinity force is also an option here, but with the expense you may not be able to build any other item without good farm or having been fed.

9) Stark’s Fervor: sometimes you have to take the hit for your team if you lack someone that can properly carry your stark’s, in this case Stark’s isn’t a bad choice for Pantheon, it gives life steal, attack speed, an armor reduction aura and health regen, all things that Pantheon benefits from.

10) Consumables: Elixir of Fortitude for damage and health, Agility for attack speed and crit and oracle’s for stealth detection (Stealth Champs, Teemo Mushrooms and wards). Keep in mind, these are great if you are farming well enough or toward late game when you have all of your items.

Some notes to keep in mind, Most games last between 25 and 45 minutes, if you find yourself in a game lasting longer than this, use good judgment in what to build, selling boots to buy an elixir of some sort and re-purchasing your boots is a good way to get by. Often if it’s a long game and I’ve got my Bloodthirster and infinity edge, I’ll begin work on phantom dancer or Black Cleaver (whichever I need more). Don’t be afraid to swap items into your build as you need so long as it doesn’t hurt you too much. If I’m finding myself in more of a support role I’ll build frozen mallet for instance before a bloodthirster. As greedy as Pantheon can be as a champion, remember to try and play well with others on your own team.



Team Compositions and Pairings

Pantheon works very well with a multitude of champions. For laning partners you want to try and go with someone with a stun, slow or disable to allow you the most time to deal out your damage.

Stuns/knock-ups: Taric, Sion, Alistar, Blitz, Ashe, Anivia, Cho’gath, Rammus, Veigar, TF, Annie
Disablers: Morganna, Ryze, Fiddlesticks
Slows: Ashe, Anivia
Others: Soraka

Be aware that Pantheon can work great with a multitude of champion parings and team comps. In a heavy stun setup you can often get a good number of people in your damage cone from heartseeker. Primarily, in the early game being able to deal out all of your damage thanks to a stun can lead to keeping lane dominance. Pairing this with smart use of bushes allows you to extend that dominance through maintaining zone control. Don’t be afraid to use the bushes to your advantage if you can, pop out to poke the opposition or last hit a mob and keep them on edge. Coordinate with your lane mate to attack someone and drive one or both opponents back.

As an aside, Soraka makes a great partner as she can keep you both healed and topped off on mana which allows you to continue applying pressure and harassing. Keep in mind that you may not get as many kills but you can certainly harass, deny xp/gold and keep your enemy off-balance during the entire early game. This is also worth noting if you happen to be paired up with an Alistar that has clarity.

Your best option for a lane partner is Fiddlesticks, he solves the biggest problem proposed by a dual melee lane thanks to being ranged. He can be super aggressive with fear and drain, silence with crows which allow you to sweep in with q and follow up with stun+e after his fear finishes. If he gets low he doesn’t need to leave you to go heal up as he can heal with drain and get back in the game fairly quick. His ultimate also makes for a great pairing at level 6 where you can leapstun one person, he fears another and the two of you go to town from there, leaving both dead, one dead and severely hurt or both severely hurt and backing allowing you to work on the turret or finishing them off..


Early Game

Pick up your first item and head toward your lane. While Pantheon -can- solo at mid, try and leave that for someone else (Annie or Twisted Fate come to mind). If you can, try and lane with someone that offers a stun or good harassment. First blood, first blood first blood! With a good laning partner you have an excellent setup for first blood as Pantheon, your spear throw makes for a great poke as you approach, with an ally that has a stun or slow it can almost guarantee that first blood unless for instance they blow flash or heal, in which case they may still get away

Your goal here is to last hit, harass and try to force your opposition back. Play tight and try to avoid putting yourself in excessive danger till level 3 or 4 if you don’t have a second stun or you aren’t sure you can pull an easy kill. Don’t commit to a kill if you’ll die in the process, it’s not worth the loss in lane time, especially as Pantheon as less time farming means being behind on the item curve. You are especially dependant on items, especially damage items since you are reliant on +damage for q and e.

During your early game Spearshot can be spammed almost limitlessly with the right masteries and runes, use it to last hit if you’re out of melee range or for harassment. The damage is deceptively good, especially if you took a long sword as your first item. If you can work the opponents down to around half life, give your lane-mate notice and attempt a kill. Stun, heartseeker and spear will often be enough or get them close to death; if they aren’t dead yet, use your summoner abilities accordingly. Don’t be afraid to cancel the channel on Heartseeker early, it gives you far more ability to chase. Losing an extra 20 damage because you cut early is worth it if you’re ensuring a kill.

Keep your Aegis Protection built up as often as possible, this passive is amazing, especially if you are against a or Gangplank as it will lessen the amount of damage they do with and Parrrley respectively. Negating those big attacks can often mean the difference between a long walk back to your lane and being able to stay in lane longer.



Mid Game

As you near level 7 or 8 the mid game starts, at the start of this, you’ll often have chances to either gank, team fight or farm. Try and keep yourself with a Lizard buff to help with any gank opportunities and to help keep the pressure on during team fights. If you have your ultimate up and you see a lane getting pushed, a solo champion on one of your towers or someone beating on an ally, feel free to drop in. Remember that once you’re in the air and about to land you can pop exhaust or any of your other summoner abilities on your opponent to make hitting them easier or preventing their escape.

During team fights, if you aren’t using Grand Skyfall to make your entrance, you should be waiting for the fight to be initiated, then jumping in with Aegis of Zeonia on their carry or a squishy and immediately use Heartseeker, the more people you can catch in the cone of heartseeker the better as this ability deals double damage to champions. Finish off runners with either Spear shot or another stun to stop or slow them. Don’t be afraid to switch targets during team fights if someone else is low to prevent them from running away.

Don’t chase unnecessarily, the worst thing you can do is give chase get baited into a trap. Remember you are the carry, you can do well alone but you are at your best swaying the tide of battle in the favor of your team. Don’t take unnecessary risks, if you aren’t positive on if you should use your ult to drop in on a fight or not to do so, err on the side of caution and don’t. Staying alive yourself denies the opposing team the gold your death would give them and may allow you to defend a tower if they decide to push.


Late Game

Several towers have been pushed over, everyone is either at level 16+ or are nearing that point. By this point you’ll know if you’re going to win or lose, if you’re winning the best thing to do is to continue playing smart. That tip about not taking risks you don’t have to goes double. Move as a group, don’t go alone and always make sure your initiator initiates. Avoid initiating if you can, you can do it but if you do, be prepared to get flattened in a split second. As Pantheon you should be keeping yourself mobile, if you see four people in lane and one of them appears over-extended or pushing over a tower, let your team know and ult in behind them to save that tower.

Another tactic is to time your ultimate so that your team can push a tower over completely. If you see your team in a stalemate at a tower, give them warning and place the ult on the tower. Often you can drive the opposition back and allow your team to take the tower in the process. You may die doing this, but if it’s an inhib tower the trade-off can often be well worth the death.

At this point in the game your role as late game carry is solidifiedt, you should be pushing out the damage, cleaning up the messes your team makes and helping push over the remaining towers. If you have the opponents pushed, deny them their neutral buffs and creeps. Work with your team to arrange ambushes, get Baron buff (and deny them Baron and the gold he gives) and continue keeping the pressure on. Don’t stall at one tower too long, always keep an eye on your map. Clean up any minion waves that are pushing too close to base or that pesky Yi or Twitch that may try to backdoor. Remember that you too can backdoor if you’ve managed to build yourself properly. A couple attack speed items to proc Aegis often, bloodthirster and Black Cleaver or IE and you can go to town.

Most importantly, come in fashionably late to the team fights (2-3 seconds into the fight) so that you can hopefully avoid most of the nasty aoe and disables and so you can deal the most damage possible. Positioning is key as you will want to ensure you get as many people in the cone of Heartseeker strike as possible, the relatively long cooldown means you probably will only get one use out of the ability in any given team fight.



Tips:

Spear Shot has a low cooldown on it, make use of it. This ability is great harassing early game, and a great tool for downing runners at low health. Don’t neglect the ability.

Heartseeker has a long cooldown, capitalize on every use of it and hit as many targets as possible with it. In team fights, try to position yourself with your stun in a spot that when you use heartseeker you get 2 or more people in the area of effect. Remember it deals double damage to champions and when you’ve stacked your damage you should see it wrecking with little effort.

Aegis of Zeonia may only have a 1 second stun but can put an end to pesky channeled spells. Got a Nunu, Katarina or Fiddlesticks channeling their ultimate, put an end to that with a quick stun. If they have a Banshee’s Veil, use your spear shot to put an end to that and then stun.

Timing is crucial, remember Grand Skyfall has a long cast time and gives itself away when you’re about to land. It’s also a fairly long cooldown, don’t be afraid to use it to clear a creepwave pushing a tower. Learning the timing and coordination needed to make the most of it is very satisfying. Being able to land right on top of the opposition as your team engages is an art form for Pantheon. If you are in a premade team, communicate and plan the initiation on both sides before you ult in. Timing Aegis can result in funny things occurring, including leaping over an Ashe ultimate and stunning her.

Ward the opponents neutral creeps, this allows you to check on what is up and also gives you the chance to drop in and give them a nice parting gift (a trip back to base, buffless and you a few gold richer and with a nice buff). Be polite, share buffs, while the golem buff is nice to have give it to a caster that can put it to better use than you. Ward the river area and dragon especially. By level 10 you should be able to solo dragon providing attack speed and life steal are taken care of (recurve bow, long sword and vamp scepter at a minimum). It may come close but thanks to your passive and q spamming you should emerge victorious.


Credits:

Jyde – for proof reading and recommending the match-up and pairings section.

GoatMafioso – For proof reading, offering up many corrections on items, tips and play style nuances as well as for mentioning Fiddlesticks as the best lane partner for Pantheon.

Fbsunny – For the constructive feedback and helping tweak the high output build.

The Bacon Dragon 02-11-2010 05:17 PM

I always start off with Doran's Blade.

I find that though you have only 6 damage, you get 4% lifesteal and the extra 120 health boost that really helps pantheon early on.

4% might not seem like much, but I get heartseeker first and if you're critting creeps early game you can stay in the lane longer. Unless of course you're up against two mage stunners who are focusing you and you have an idiot lane partner.

ePiMagnets 02-11-2010 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor87 (Hozzászólás 657462)
I always start off with Doran's Blade.

I find that though you have only 6 damage, you get 4% lifesteal and the extra 120 health boost that really helps pantheon early on.

4% might not seem like much, but I get heartseeker first and if you're critting creeps early game you can stay in the lane longer. Unless of course you're up against two mage stunners who are focusing you and you have an idiot lane partner.

The problem with Doran's Blade over shield is that it's a terrible start for Pantheon as far as itemization, it's a deceptive item because it looks like it would be a good start. The same problem that plague's all of the Doran's items holds true here, they don't build into anything at all. Doran's Shield has more utility early game, especially in the instances where you can't get in melee range (double range lanes come to mind). Lifesteal doesn't help you at all if you can't get in range to smack minions in your lane while Doran's Shield allows you to continue regenerate health at a faster pace if you need to hang back for whatever reason.

To be honest, I feel Longsword has the greatest initial potential for Pantheon since it does build into several items that are useful with Doran's Shield coming in at second for when you want a little more defensive capability.

GoatMafioso 02-11-2010 06:57 PM

Though I did have some input on this guide I still have to, atleast, make a post and say I agree with Vulgarity. It's really hard to beat the longsword+health pot start on pantheon...and the only thing I could really see worth taking other than that would be A) dorans shield if you expect to be in a ****ty lane or b) ruby crystal -for the same reasons- and you intend on going along the "rush frozen mallet" strat.

sleels 02-11-2010 07:07 PM

This is the worst guide ever. No thought put into it

SmashGizmo 02-11-2010 07:11 PM

I very strongly believe in meki pendant + 2 health pots for the opening. I've tried long sword and I've tried doran's blade and I've tried potion of fortitude, but I've always found myself being most successful with meki pendant early to spam the ever loving **** out of spear throw while still having the mana to do lots of burst damage with qwe. (for skills, I always do a qweeerewewwwrqqrqq build)

From there, it's tougher to decide what to do for the next item, but I'll usually go either:
meki -> philosopher's stone
boots -> ninja tabi/mercury treads (I find the survivability of some form of defensive boots far outweights all the other boots)
B. F. Sword -> Bloodthirster

or

boots
rush B. F. Sword -> Bloodthrister
(boots) -> ninja tabi/mercury treads
(pendant) -> chalice

(The difference between these is that the 2nd build gets BF sword much quicker and thus can gank earlier, while the 1st build stays on lanes much much better with the regen and farms gold for the next item better with the philosopher's stone buff)

items from here need to be played by ear, but I've found all of the following to be good choices at one point or another:
zeal -> phantom dancer
phage -> frozen mallet
B. F. Sword -> 2nd bloodthirster/Inf Edge/Black Cleaver
Banshee's Veil
Last Whisper

I personally love going phantom dancer to get ridiculous dodge when I go ninja tabi as I put 9 points into defensive masteries (3 magic resist/1 armor/4 dodge/1 nimbleness) and max yellow dodge runes, which really adds a lot of the survivablity Pantheon needs (especially coupled with his passive). In addition it helps you chase with the movespeed buff (and extra nimbleness triggers from dodging) and the extra crit rate and attack speed are obviously great on him.

Fbsunny 02-11-2010 07:50 PM

Your "high output" build really is not very good. If you are going for high output you should start with boots, then get either a brutalizer of BF sword, not attack speed. Attack speed does not help any of your abilities so if you want to maximize them you should get attack damage. Once you have a bloodthirster and either a brutalizer or another BF sword you can think about getting attack speed.

Also, there is really no reason to get boots of swiftness imo. He has the fastest base move speed of any character in the game, and if you go with the 11/0/19 mastery build you will have more move speed with berserker greaves/mercury treads/ninja tabi then most champions would have with boots of swiftness. ( You would have 412 move speed with berserker greaves)

Also what is the point of making a guide that has 3 totally different item builds in it? A guide should be what you use, because you find it being the best item build in your experience and for your play style. The section that has possible enemy countering items makes sense, because without doing that you will not be able to win that many games, but really you should just focus on one main build.

@Smashgizmo I have found that Pantheon really does not need any mana regen items at all. If you start with boots+ 2hp pots+ 1mana pot ( and use heartseeker only to get kills early game) you can easily last till level 6 when you can blue pill back to your base, get a brutalizer/BF sword and then ult in for a gank somewhere. After this it is incredibly easy to get golem, and if you ever need some mana regen you should get golem since it will help with CDR also.

ePiMagnets 02-11-2010 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbsunny (Hozzászólás 658080)
Your "high output" build really is not very good. If you are going for high output you should start with boots, then get either a brutalizer of BF sword, not attack speed. Attack speed does not help any of your abilities so if you want to maximize them you should get attack damage. Once you have a bloodthirster and either a brutalizer or another BF sword you can think about getting attack speed.

The useage of the attack speed is to take advantage of moments where you are unable to spam a move. I.E. during a chase where stopping to throw spear for anything other than the killshot can put the opponent too far ahead of you to catch up. Thus, a higher attack speed helps greatly in delivering your maximum throughput. Also keep in mind that if you throw in a Black Cleaver at the tail end, the faster you get up those stacks the more damage you put out. Thus there are times where the attack speed increases your overall throughput. It also seems that Q and E both benefit from armor penetration thus why Last Whisper comes in handy for the attack speed.

I also agree wholeheartedly on Brutalizer as an item in Pantheon's build, there are just times where you aren't able to get it in (lots of kills early for instance where you can rush a Bloodthirster). I am constantly playing with the builds though and as I find items that work better I'll be replacing them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbsunny (Hozzászólás 658080)
Also, there is really no reason to get boots of swiftness imo. He has the fastest base move speed of any character in the game, and if you go with the 11/0/19 mastery build you will have more move speed with berserker greaves/mercury treads/ninja tabi then most champions would have with boots of swiftness. ( You would have 412 move speed with berserker greaves)

Sometimes I throw in Mobility or Swiftness to ensure cutting someone off as they flee. I am becoming a much larger proponent of the various boots 2 (leaning towards Merc/Bersekers), it's something I approach on a case by case basis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbsunny (Hozzászólás 658080)
Also what is the point of making a guide that has 3 totally different item builds in it? A guide should be what you use, because you find it being the best item build in your experience and for your play style. The section that has possible enemy countering items makes sense, because without doing that you will not be able to win that many games, but really you should just focus on one main build.

Stop and think, do you think that I build the same way EVERY game? I tend to flip between the first and third build often, the second build is something I'm testing for viability and tinker with against heavy melee teams. In certain match-ups I'll focus on a higher survival build whereas other times I focus on a higher through-put. These 3 builds are what I use for my playstyle and while they differ greatly, I do put each to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbsunny (Hozzászólás 658080)
@Smashgizmo I have found that Pantheon really does not need any mana regen items at all. If you start with boots+ 2hp pots+ 1mana pot ( and use heartseeker only to get kills early game) you can easily last till level 6 when you can blue pill back to your base, get a brutalizer/BF sword and then ult in for a gank somewhere. After this it is incredibly easy to get golem, and if you ever need some mana regen you should get golem since it will help with CDR also.

I wholeheartedly agree here with one caveat and that is when you have someone on your team that can put golem to a little more use.

All in all thanks for the constructive thoughts, it's much appreciated.

GoatMafioso 02-11-2010 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbsunny (Hozzászólás 658080)
Your "high output" build really is not very good. If you are going for high output you should start with boots, then get either a brutalizer of BF sword, not attack speed. Attack speed does not help any of your abilities so if you want to maximize them you should get attack damage. Once you have a bloodthirster and either a brutalizer or another BF sword you can think about getting attack speed.

Also, there is really no reason to get boots of swiftness imo. He has the fastest base move speed of any character in the game, and if you go with the 11/0/19 mastery build you will have more move speed with berserker greaves/mercury treads/ninja tabi then most champions would have with boots of swiftness. ( You would have 412 move speed with berserker greaves)

Also what is the point of making a guide that has 3 totally different item builds in it? A guide should be what you use, because you find it being the best item build in your experience and for your play style. The section that has possible enemy countering items makes sense, because without doing that you will not be able to win that many games, but really you should just focus on one main build.

@Smashgizmo I have found that Pantheon really does not need any mana regen items at all. If you start with boots+ 2hp pots+ 1mana pot ( and use heartseeker only to get kills early game) you can easily last till level 6 when you can blue pill back to your base, get a brutalizer/BF sword and then ult in for a gank somewhere. After this it is incredibly easy to get golem, and if you ever need some mana regen you should get golem since it will help with CDR also.

You said he should build damage instead of attack speed but the only attack speed item on that build is last whisper which, imho, is better overall for pantheon. You lose out on a whopping 5 attack damage and a small amount of cooldown reduction in exchange for 40% armor pen (which DOES effect his Q and E abilities) and 40% attack speed which greatly increases his damage output and helps him survive a bit better in fights thanks to his passive.

I'm still iffy about boot choice on him and it does depend highly on if you go into utility for +movespeed or not. If you don't (doing a 21/9/0) build instead, for instance, than ms3 boots is an ok choice.

I do agree that I have yet to really find it worth ever spending gold on a mana regen item.

Finally, I think his guide, in general, works perfectly fine for the purpose he intended. Trying to put a decent all encompassing pantheon guide on the forums which have, lets be honest, been mucked down with a lot of horrible guides. Having multiple item builds isn't a bad thing, in fact it lets new players know their options depending on what sort of role you need ie: Getting focused, build tankier/supportish....having a strong initiator...build balls-to-the-walls dps.

02-12-2010 11:36 AM

It is really nice how you have a decent guide out. Like, usually mid high elo people just stalk super high elo players and copy builds. But doing that also makes people miss the nuances of things like skill order or if you leave some items unfinished while completing others.


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