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-   -   So why do "good" Sivirs always stack team auras? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=46022)

WayMaker 01-13-2010 09:12 AM

So why do "good" Sivirs always stack team auras?
 
Edit: From personal experience, I think I can now understand why it works so well.

After a lot of reading, I've noticed that a lot of "good" sivirs claim they usually stack team auras. I think this is good in some situations depending on what your team makeup is, but if you have ap champions with low attack power, the auras are not going to do your team much good.

The other problem I have with this is why people think sivirs can only stack auras to be useful? You don't expect other dps champions to always stack auras, so why do a lot of people think she should ALL the time (as I mentioned, some of the time its good). Like any other dps champion, getting dps/damage/life steal can do wonders since she has a ranged attacking that can bounce and hit multiple enemies at once.

I find in many situations that dps sivir works better then team aura stacking support sivir. By mid game, you can get a decent number of kills and if you're fed with the correct item build based on what the other team has, you can clear entire enemy teams by yourself. If you're not fed, your attack still bounces and hits MULTIPLE people in team fight. Throw in some armor pen, dps, and damage, then you can still take out a ton of health from multiple champions at once. Ricochet is essentially a non-stop aoe for team battles, so by purchasing auras you're lowering your offense effectiveness.

Just to note, I'll go ahead and say I still have a lot to learn on the offensive
powers of a sivir. The reason why I stay in mid ELO instead of going into the top 500 with this build is because I'm too aggressive and die much more then I should. All of my assists and kills I get usually means I've done at least 50% of their health, so assists generally mean the same as kills for me. As I continue to practice and learn to die less, offensive sivir will be much more effective.

Prospero 01-13-2010 09:23 AM

My experience is that while she can be a solid DPS champion, generally her job is to help the carries on her team be as awesome as they can be. Your carries need to focus all their gold into making themselves death on wheels, but given that Sivir's ultimate is already a supportive aura, it ends up making sense to have her spend gold on items that can help the whole team. There is no better bang for the buck than aura items; giving 5 people an effect for the price of one item is well worth it.

Sivir also makes more gold than most other champions. Since we can't give cash to our carries, giving them auras is the next best thing.

All that said ou are totally correct. Sivir can be brutal when specced to kill. However most teams have plenty of DPS and need her support/pushing abilities instead.

WayMaker 01-13-2010 09:53 AM

Thanks for the reply. I often times am the carry for my team, usually being the only dps on the team (I'm usually in a premade, so they expect me to go offensive sivir). Even though yi is a good dps, I find that dps sivir is overall more useful in team battles because of her dps ricochet "aoe". I do understand how team auras would be good however if sivir is laning (not mid) and you have a lot of carry champs on your team.

Purutzil 01-13-2010 09:59 AM

Sivir usually stacks a few Aura items when no one else in the team will. Most often she is the best to hold starks for the regular carry. Mainly she will be picking up what others may slack. She is an interesting combination of support and pusher. Starks is 95% of the time a great investment with other aura items being good to obtain to in cases where you might not have a support or tank who will pick it up instead.

Slide 01-13-2010 10:00 AM

Oh boy. Ok, its actually pretty simple.

Sivir does 2 things very well. She pushes (clears creep waves) and enhances her team with her incredible ult on a short cooldown.

Because she can push lanes so quickly, she is an incredible value to the early 5 man push. Add in her Ultimate (which is an aura effect itself) and the largest beneficial effect she can have in a game is during a 5 man push.

We build her with auras because she should be in the situation to use them more then any other champion. In fact, it is her main purpose.

Both Starks and Aegies are good items on their own, when you share the aura with 4 teammates they are, BY FAR the most cost effective items in the game. Since you want to be with your 4 other teamates to share your incredible ult, staking further auras is the only thing that makes sense.

Lastly, and this is VERY important. Aura items are more effective the earlier you get them. As Sivir, I complete Chalice, Boots and Starks by level 11 almost every game. At level 11 you have 2 levels of your ult. Your BB is strong enough to almost clear a creep wave and your ricochet should have a level or two to help clean it up.

All of that makes a 5 man push as soon as Sivir gets starks and level 2 ulti almost unstoppable. Add in a rally or two and you will push the inhib almost every time.

Lastly since you both seem to be thinking she is a good DPS'er, she isnt. Im sure you noticed even casters can be built DPs lately and be effective. This doesnt mean they should. Let a carry go the pure DPS route. If you go auras, you will make them unstoppable.

This is a team game and Sivir, due to her ult and that her strength is pushing, is one of the premier teamplayers. Using her otherwise is not using her to her fullest potential.

Aura Sivirs win games and they do it fast. A good team with an aura sivir often wins games in less then 20 minutes because you can push right to the nexus and kill it at levels 11-14 due to the incredible strength your team posses at that time by sharing your auras.

Im a mid ELO player (I think, Im certainly no pro, but I have a winning record and plenty of games played and I started in Beta) both I EVERY top ELO Sivir player agrees, auras are the way to go. I tried explaining why and I hopefully made sense.

If you have further questions, ask away.

EDIT: Waymaker, if your supposed to be the DPS champ, Sivir is DEFINATELY not who you should be playing. Sivir is Support DPS. not a carry. Any build you do with her that is supposed to make her a carry would be FAR more effective on an actual carry.

Secondly, its doubly important to get starks when you solo. You hit 11 faster, hence your enemies will be lower level BUT with your starks and ult, your team will have an even easier time pushing that inhib.

Sivir pushes and supports DPS. IF your doing something else, your better off playing someone else.

Cheers,
QUICKSLIDE

Slide 01-13-2010 10:07 AM

Also Waymaker, I saw you didnt know this, Ricochet is magical damage. It has nothing to do with armor, does not leech, does not crit and does not apply effects.

The extra DPS it does in a team fight is negligible most of the time. BB will normally do more if you throw it right.

The real clincher is, no matter how powerful or good your DPS Sivir is, it will pale in comparison to a Sivir stacking auras supporting a carry. Every time, no questions.

EDIT: As to the aura items. Its basically just starks. I personally also add in aegis as do many others. Soul Shroud ususally isnt picked up by Sivir.

My Build is:

Chalice, Boots, Starks, Aegies, Bloodthirster. (Though I rarely complete Bloodthirster and only finish aegies every 3rd game or so, an early starks on a solo sivir wins games FAST).

Starks is built at level 11 almost every game. Sometimes 12. Either way at that point, you get your team to 5 man push a lane. Unless you enemy is VERY organized, doesnt makje any mistakes or has their own sivir who has matched you (IE is 11 and has starks as well) you WILL push the inhib. That should set you up for an easy and fast win.

WayMaker 01-13-2010 10:32 AM

I'm in champion select right now, I'm going to test out your build and see what it does for me late game. I never actually tried full aura myself because dps has been effective in the mid ELO which I'm generally in. Thanks for the posts.

Prospero 01-13-2010 10:33 AM

Stacking auras only works if your team has the skills to make use of them. I've had a number of games where I had to go DPS so that someone on our team could hurt people. It's definitely less than ideal though. Luckily rushing starks never sucks whether your team is decent or not.

James Orlov 01-13-2010 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QUICKSLIDE (Hozzászólás 509393)

My Build is:

Chalice, Boots, Starks, Aegies, Bloodthirster. (Though I rarely complete Bloodthirster and only finish aegies every 3rd game or so, an early starks on a solo sivir wins games FAST).

So, I get almost the same build: Chalice, Boots, Starks but then I go for a Trinity. Am I doing it wrong? 'Cause I like the bonuses Trinity gives me and 'cause with it I can slow them, I thought it would be pretty useful in team fights because I am fast shooting/slowing and stacking auras so that they may not run from us.
What do you think?

ImmaRobotLOL 01-13-2010 11:03 AM

Not sure if anyone has clearly stated the obvious yet, but Sivir farms extremely well [obv]. As such, she often has tons of extra gold that can be used for making your team awesome without even delaying her own development as a fierce pusher.


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