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-   -   Attack Speed Theory. Short term gain, long term loss? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=43595)

Tarion 01-05-2010 07:47 PM

Attack Speed Theory. Short term gain, long term loss?
 
Hey all. Been looking at some theorycrafting for Tristana builds. I was considering a Red runes: ArPen, Blue/Yellow: Atck. Speed, with an early Sword of the Divine.

However, I'm not sure if that's worth it, because late game with rank 5 Rapid Fire you'll be hitting well beyond the max attack speed cap, as far as I can tell. That seems hugely wasted.

Is that a reason attack speed runes don't see as much play?

Essentially, it comes down to boosting your early game at the potential expense of your late game. Is this worth more than Crit Chance runes that would be helpful all the way through? And would this be the same for any character with a serious attack speed buff?

EDIT: Some more details, because I realised this is a bit sparse. Was going to go for a Sword of the Divine, Berserkers Greaves early game. But, with Rapid Fire that puts her over the cap at 18, provided you've runed attack speed. Obviously, the initial plan was to get more SotD procs, but I'm not sure if that's worth the wasted items late game.

EDIT again: I could be missing something about how attack speed works, as an FYI. I hear that its not reliably down anywhere, so my numbers could be wrong :/

WholeGrn 01-05-2010 08:00 PM

I would not rune for attack speed as items give so much of it already. I like to use runes to get rare stats (regen on carries, crit damage, armor pen, crit chance) as those rare stats are usually good. Also, you might want to get Malady over Sword of Divine unless they have a Jax because I feel the early game life steal owns and it does more damage than Sword of the Divine after six attacks. However, you might not want that either as a Bloodrazor could be a good investment.

Basically the bad thing about attack speed runes is that most good items come with it already and it is extremely easy to hit the cap with teammate buffs, personal buffs, and simply that items give it in abundance.

Tarion 01-05-2010 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WholeGrn (Hozzászólás 481685)
Basically the bad thing about attack speed runes is that most good items come with it already and it is extremely easy to hit the cap with teammate buffs, personal buffs, and simply that items give it in abundance.

Nicely summed up. That's roughly what I was groping for.

Unlike say, Crit chance and crit damage where its much harder to hit the cap.

Thanks, gives me something to consider. Oh, are you counting the bonus armour Pen of Sword of the Divine? To be honest, a good chunk of it is me wanting to use SotD. For some reason, I've rather liked it and had no opportunity :P

Beegly Boogs 01-05-2010 08:07 PM

I see lots of top ranked people with rune pages for ranged carries with full armor pen quints and marks.

AmyOverlord 01-05-2010 08:59 PM

The reason attack speed runes are bad on Tristana is because she has a buff to increase her attack speed by a pre-set percent. You would get things like Bloodthirster, Frozen Mallet, the works. But if you play someone like....Teemo, attack speed would be more beneficial. His poison is there to do extra damage (35 a second, I believe). Meaning with more attack speed, you have something backing you up. He has nothing to aid him in attack speed.

Blind Dart, Move Quick (increased movement speed), Passive Poison, and Mushrooms.

Unlike Yi who can just use Beserker's Greaves and Last Whisper. He only needs to use Wuju + Highlander to reach the cap and kill anyone in two seconds.

Or Twitch. He has increased attack speed when coming out of his stealth AND from his ultimate.



I also remember seeing a very good statement in another thread.

Quote:

You want to use good attack speed if the enemy has a lot of tanks. More attack speed will whittle tanks down faster. If their team has squishies, it would be more advised to use attack damage. So you can kill them before they kill you.
Of course, with a rune book, you never know. Some people fill their book with only one type of rune, some balance it out.

Personally, with most melee DPS, I would go with 9 Red Armor Pen, 9 Yellow Critical Damage, 9 Blue Critical Damage, 3 Purple Critical Damage/Experience gain.

Simply because armor penetration is awesome. Makes those high armor users (like Rammus and Alistar) pay for stacking armor.


EDIT: If you do decide to use attack speed, things like Sword of the Divine, Black Cleaver, and Madred's Bloodrazor is godly.

Tornsoul 01-06-2010 02:11 AM

I think bloodrazor is highly underrated. When I play ashe I just stack attack speed pretty much with bloodrazor, its so awesome because its a raw percentage no gimmicks. Bloodrazor, 2x last whisper,malady, IE,boots.

Can mow down just about anyone if your an almost 4k hp tank bloodrazor cares not it just does more damage the more hp you have.

Basilisk9466 01-06-2010 03:20 AM

I'm a little uncertain about how to build Tristana these days, actually, as the new patch is making me wonder whether it's a multiplicative bonus or an additive one. It makes a pretty big difference.

If it's multiplicative, it's insane. 2.5/1.9 = 1.316, 1.316/1.013 = 1.299. Translated, if you have items and runes which add up to over a 30% AS bonus, you're wasting it.

If it's additive, 2.5/1.013 = 2.468, 2.468-0.9 = 1.568. Translated, you max out with runes/items adding up to around 55%.

Either way, I waste a huge amount of damage on my current Trist build, so definite reworking needed...

Baron Corm 01-06-2010 07:37 AM

100 bonus damage every 4 attacks = 25 bonus damage which cannot critical hit and does not benefit from armor penetration. Don't buy SotD unless they're stacking dodge.

I think with just Last Whisper and Berserker's boots on Tristana, you're fine for attack speed. Polish it off with Infinity Edge, Bloodthirster, Black Cleaver, etc. I don't like Frozen Mallet on her because it only adds 20 damage. It really kills her as a carry in my experience. Just get lizard buff to slow.

Tarion 01-06-2010 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baron Corm (Hozzászólás 482999)
100 bonus damage every 4 attacks = 25 bonus damage which cannot critical hit and does not benefit from armor penetration. Don't buy SotD unless they're stacking dodge.

Again, are you counting in the huge armour Penetration buff the activated ability gives? Its more significant than a set of Desolation Marks. Seems like the odds of not hitting zero armour against anything but a tank are slim.

Basilisk9466 01-06-2010 12:17 PM

I've never actually used SotD. Anyone know what the cooldown on the active is?


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