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-   -   Nidalee Stats, and minor stratagems (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=43440)

Feardain 01-05-2010 10:40 AM

Nidalee Stats, and minor stratagems
:: Updated ::

Some people give flak towards Nidalee, saying she was an uninteresting character, or just way to hard to juggle her build. So I decided after playing against a Nidalee, and getting my Sivir destroyed, to learn how to play her. ( Personally I think I almost found my Niche with her, I just get to greedy with my pvp kills, and end up getting killed by either turrets, or a triple team.)

I find that soloing with Nidalee, is way easier then almost any other Character, using your heal to increase your attack speed, and keep your health up, you can harass the other solo, and sometimes get a kill early on.

Javelin Toss :: A later skill, and one I personally hardly use, it is too inaccurate, though the damage it deals at max distance, is pretty nice. I usually take it at level 8, due to the fact it gives you the skill take down in cougar form, which is infinitely, more useful.

Bush Whack :: A good skill too use in brush, so that you can discourage and even sometimes kill those who use brush as an escape mechanism. I switch between this skill, and Primal surge, until level 6, when you can get her ultimate. I chose this skill second, and it gives you the skill Pounce in cougar form.

Primal Surge :: One of the BEST, heals in the game, though it does not heal for much, unless you boost your ability power, the attack speed can mean the difference between killing an enemy, and dieing yourself. I chose this one first, and it gives you Swipe in cougar form.

Aspect of the Cougar :: Changes you to a cougar, and back. I get it at level 6, why would you wait for any ultimate? The minimal movement speed, is just a small blessing, when combined with Pounce, you can cover some decent ground, When either chasing someone down, or running away.

Cougar Form Abilities

Take Down :: Wonderful as a follow up against a low health enemy player, it deals more damage, the less health the enemy has, And seems to have a brilliant range.

Pounce :: I use pounce to close distance between myself and an enemy player. But also as a combo against minions.

Swipe :: The area effect is wicked It hits kind of like a circle, however the range backwards, is short. Combining this after a pounce on minions, gets you lots of gold level 6+.

Basic stats, from level 1, without any runes, didn't feel like doing the math to level 18, maybe edit later.

Nidalee Stats per level

HP 460 +90
MP 265 +45
Damage 47 +3
Attak speed.67 +.02
Armor 20 +4
Dodge 1 +0
HP regen 5.5 +.5 (per 5/secs)
MP regen 4.5 +.5 (per 5/secs)
Ability 0 +0
Crit chance 3.5 +.7 or .6? Not to sure, didn't want to do the math.
Magic Resist 30 +1
Range 525 +0
Movement 310 +0

With Runes I like to focus on Ability Cool Down. This allows you too keep an item slot open for something more important, and also allows you to keep yourself healed and throwing spears at max speed.

Items ::

I guess I will explain, what is working for me. First, I buy a Malady, well technically a Vampiric scepter, this allows you too keep your health still at a fine level, despite being kind of squishy in the armor and health department. The Malady also helps immensely with your attack speed, so taking down a few minions too stay alive, shouldn't be an issue.

Next thing I will buy, is Berserkers Greaves. The movement speed helps you chase down Players, and the attack speed, is always useful.

Next I will work on Getting a Phantom Dancer, By way of first getting a Zeal. Again the attack speed is super useful, and you should be level 18 if not close to it by the time you finish your phantom dancer. So your attack speed unbuffed might be around 1.80, The dodge, and the movement speed is always a bonus, the real prize is the 30% critical chance.

If the game persists, and the teams are even, the next thing I will go for, is And this will seem like an Odd one, Guardian Angel. The armor bonus, will help you use your life steal a little more effectively, and the rebirth, can really surprise your enemies, giving you a second chance at killing one or even two people off.

It is very rare, in my experience to have a round go much longer, then being able to purchase all that, but it has happened at least twice where a round lasted longer then an hour. I found myself finding plenty of use in Madreds Bloodrazor, when going up against tanks, or people who maxed their health, it is just too useful. With Madreds in tow, your max attack speed unbuffed should be 2.11, so you are one primal surge away from 2.5 attack speed.

Lastly, it has not happened yet, but i would imagine, if it came down to a final round, I would personally buy a Frozen Mallet, Your enemies not being able to run away as fast as they can, would probably get you many more kills, with the other items combined.

(( I believe statistics on the website, and even the wikia, are incorrect for a lot of Characters. I went in game, and leveled up Nidalee, without runes or items, to level 10, and came up with these numbers. Even the in game descriptors, says she is supposed to have lower health. ))

Catch you in game, If I haven't already.

Brontobeuf 01-05-2010 11:07 AM

Items, runes & masteries are the hardest part in Nidalee... meaning you just gave us nothing useful. :(

rightstuff 01-05-2010 02:46 PM

21/-/- works well with her. The tree where you toss 9 points in just depends on your playstyle. Do you want dodge or an exp boost? Primarily I succeed using her as a ganker. I disagree with your assessment of the javelin skill. I find that it's incredibly helpful to harass opponents in solo lanes and before team fights. It's also very useful when killing a fleeing opponent.

My ganks usually went:

1) charge through the brush in cougar towards an enemy champion
2) open with pounce, the aoe e skill, and then the q skill

Their hp is usually down a bit at this point, and these skills only take a few seconds to rotate through. Either the champion runs at which point I chase for a few hits and switch to human form for an easy javelin target, or they stay for a few more hits and then run and I switch to human for for an easy javelin hit. Her heal comes in handy when you switch to human form for the attack speed, and since the cooldowns on human and cougar aren't shared swapping forms to utilize all the skills can be a good idea.

As far as runes go, I haven't really toyed with them. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

mobar 01-05-2010 03:55 PM

Since she tends to be squishy, I use +armor (the +hp don't seem worth it to me... none of them do actually). I want to try %crit runes too.
I went Utility since I've been learning other champs and it's generally helpful, but I'd say Offense is probly better for her. On the other hand, since she's fragile, defense would be nice. It just depends on whether you're having more problems surviving or finishing people off.

What summoner spells are people taking? I've seen a lot of different opinions here. I use Flash (yes i know its redundant with Pounce but it saves my ass A LOT) and Heal (also redundant, but dead useful). Personally, I have more trouble surviving than winning chases, but I'd bet Exhaust would work well, especially early game.

I like the suggested build (Triforce + Travel Boots + Bloodthirster), but I haven't experimented much. I do like to get Stinger, especially when I'm having trouble farming, since it's such a good bargain (+20%AS, +5 MP regen, 10% CDR). Has anybody tried a mainly CDR build? The idea is that if you can spam your cougar abilities faster, it ups your DPS, but I'm not sure how efficient this would be...

Feardain 01-05-2010 04:35 PM

Updated with my thoughts on items, and runes. I want too hear more thoughts on Nidalee. So keep em coming.

Galathan 01-05-2010 06:33 PM

I play nid, like every game, i have an entire +to atk speed rune set, lvl 22 summoner so i start with a .88 atk speed. I grab javelin toss first, just to help my laner harass early game. I grab the movement boots and 2 hp pots, with 1 mp pot. keeping her in grass usually helps keep her alive early game but once you hit 6 you better be on front lines doing dmg to champs, cause they will be gunning for you to keep you from getting to lvl 11 when your cougar goes to lvl 2 at which point if you are all even you will own.

As for items, i go for beserk greaves first, then executioners calling, that dot has saved me sooo many times. then for a malady, i grab avarice blade at this point for increased crit, and bonus gold and usually before i can finish my phantom dancer the game is over. However if game continues after phantom dancer i get tri-force. Then tiamat if game is still going.

Mastery build: i am completely utility, except for the few points you need for the +atk speed down offense tree, increased gold, incresed xp, increased mana regen, increased move speed, decrease ability cooldown. It all makes sense to me. I grab heal and flash for summoner spells.

Tell me what you think, cause this build works really well for me.

Gandalf 007 01-05-2010 06:42 PM

AP Nidalee is 10x better than AD Nidalee. Personally, I believe any Nidalee that remains in cat or human form for more than 3 seconds during nearly any skirmish/teamfight is playing incorrectly. I have received so many compliments on my Nidalee build/playstyle, that I'm amazed when I don't hear something from someone during a match.

I also believe that with the correct build, playstyle, and golem buff, AP Nidalee is literally the best early-midgame champ in this game.

The playstyle is fairly simplistic but deadly. The metagame is to play defensively, to kite, then burst, then kite, then burst. The effect often is pulling multiple champs down a lane, even when outnumbered, wearing them down, and wiping them.

During the actual fight, I'll usually approach in cat form spamming pounce, but shift to human at least 3 seconds before I'm going to engage (as I'm running up), then I'll hold my trap cd, and instead huck a javellin as I approach.

Then, shift to cat to pounce+claw+takedown (which hit around the same second javellin does), immediately back out to human to primal surge the nearest carry, then drop trap right on top of the enemy clump immediately after the heal (this is why I hold bushwack, because it's a long CD and you want it to hit EVERYONE). Then, shift back to cat, and repeat (or pounce away). It's a simplistic style but does require significant aiming, timing, and cooldown management.

Some tips:

- Human beings often instintively step towards safety when another champ becomes visible to them. Therefore, throwing a javellin slightly behind a champ in the safest direction for them to run (at max range), will cause a human-delay reaction where they step into it instinctively due to wanting to escape at my entrance to the fight. If they are fast enough to pull back, then they have delayed their own escape (but more often than not they step into it on instinct).

- Running away from your own javellin after throwing causes the target to take loads more damage.

- Clarity is absolutely incredible on Nidalee, especially if you are AT'ing and will be sharing golem buffs.

- While laning, absolutely NEVER heal yourself or anyone else who is not attacking (usually). It is better to remain hurt, becoming better bait, and use the heal after the enemy champs engage to take advantage of the attack speed. With more experience it is easier to determine what is a "safe" amount of health to wait at while holding the heal. With more practice, it gets easier and easier to get firstblood with a well-timed primal surge +exhuast/ignite.

Basilisk9466 01-06-2010 12:53 AM

Although I confess that I go AD rather than AP, your style isn't that different from mine. Since I'm not so ability focused, I'm not shifting quite as much, but there's definitely a lot more benefit to shifting around than sticking solidly to one shape.

However, I really don't see the point in the AS items. She gets a lot more from straight AD - I've been known to grab Malady or Starks, but the AS is incidental. Sheen, Frozen Mallet (not optional, you need the health), Black Cleaver and Banshee's Veil has served me well (though I tend to skip Banshee if they don't have much CC). AS doesn't help your Cougar abilities, which are your main DPS output, and you've got Primal Surge for an AS boost.

That's the other thing - why the depressing lack of Sheen?

rightstuff 01-06-2010 09:39 AM

I like the idea of using frozen mallet. It works well and she definitely needs the extra hp. It depends on the game though.

I usually start with boots (eventually becoming lvl 3 speed boots) 2 hp pots and 1 mana pot. Then I rush trinity force, starting with sheen. After that it's bloodthirster. Once those three items are present the rest are sort of situational. I'll agree that attack speed isn't the best itemization for her. I feel like her dps comes from burst with abilities rather than auto-attacking like most carries.

As for summoner spells, clarity is amazing on her. It pretty much refills a full mana bar and the cooldown is short enough that you won't ever need any mana regen items. I mostly take the mana potion in case my lane opponent opens themselves up for an inordinate amount of javelin tosses.

As for runes and mastery, I think building an increase to xp gain with quintessence runes and 9 points in utility could make a difference more noticeable in nidalee than in other champions. The faster you get that cougar form up, the faster you can start ganking everyone.

bobthegood 01-07-2010 01:50 AM

Go both AD and AP. Triforce into dual guinsoo rageblades. Don't say its bad or agree that its good, just go try it sometime.

I prefer getting sheen, 1 rageblade, finish triforce, then get the 2nd.

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