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-   -   Garen buffed? You are kidding me. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=428772)

Manubrium 01-04-2011 11:55 AM

Garen buffed? You are kidding me.
When Riot announced that Garen would be buff in the next patch, I said to myself **''Cool, I'll finally be able to play my main again''. Then I learn this:
•Judgment base damage increased to 60/100/140/180/220 from 60/90/120/150/180 per second
I was like… disappointed. I was playing him while before he was ban in ranked games and people start playing him more.

The problem that I notice with Garen was not his high dps for a tank or his escapability with judgement making him slow immune. The big problem was and, if buffed so he would be playable, he is really easy to play to be effective. He was a noob counter. I mean I rarely saw player that know how to counter him. Garen must close up to ennemies to be effective --> so why not a good old bushwait. There is the problem: Let's say you are against Garen. Why would you facecheck a brush? I saw once an ashe paying 90 gold for a 4.5 minutes ward and you know what? That was the only time I saw someone counter Garen correctly. The few first nerfs on Garen was okay, he was a bit overpower early game and his slow immune was making him unstopable against some laners. But people still facecheck their brush early game! So Garen always seems overpowered until he has no dps, because everybody goes in the bush to see him make his judgement on you.

To be sure I am clear I'll give you few exemples, let's say you are against Miss Fortune in mid lane. Well if you stay alone just behind a creep you might receive a double-up in the face, SO WHY WOULD YOU STAY THERE? Just has stealth champion fed in the mid game or a good shroom field by teemo, WHY DIDN’T YOUR TANK BUY ORACLE? Or against tryndamere, DONT FIGHT HIM HE WILL KILL YOU OR ESCAPE WITH HIS ULTIMATE.
Miss Fortune, Twitch, Eve and Tryndamere are just as OP as Garen was. People learned to play against this champions (Well, presently Eve is the more choosed noob stomper).

Also, if you put a sight ward in the brush and that you have a stun and/or you are a ranged dps: What Garen can do against you? Not a single thing, he needs to be close to you! If the Garen stay in the bush and you can't last it minions, you know what? He can't too. Please in the next post don’t say to me «if I am Master Yi I can’t lane against Garen» That’s true. Every champion is and has a good counter.

Finally I'll compare Garen with a champion buffed recently and that for me is just like Garen was: Pantheon. I'll explain: If you go near pantheon or you facecheck his brush, Pantheon will cast Aegis of Zeonia (Decisive Strike) on you, will cast Heartseeker strike (Judgement). Pantheon throws a spear on you after it and Garen activate his shield while backing. Their Passive are both good, Pantheon blocks an attack and Garen goes regenerate his health (unless you are a good player that nukes or range attack Garen often so he won't. Garen's ultimate was nerfed and is nothing compare to Pantheon's one. But it is okay, Garen is more tanky... And that's all. Pantheon has more dps, much more, can harass with his spear nuke, has more mobility and can one shot champion if his ultimate lands near them. Pantheon is another noob stomper. Why turret dive when a pantheon is against you? Why overextend? TreeEskimo showed me to buy cloth armor and 5 health potions so he can ran out of mana if you solo lane against him. Yeah, why not, that's a good counter. Pantheon is mana dependant. Garen is not but a lot close up dependant. There are more differences and similarities between those champions, you can post them if you want, but it stills that both Garen and Pantheon can harass you when you close up in laning phase early game. And what I tried to explain is that Pantheon does it better and is a better champion for all other aspect of the game.

So I wish Garen will recover his old total attack damage ratio with judgment OR that the next buffs makes item more effective, because actually tank AND dps Garen sucks. If you have intelligent post I am open. I don't say I know everything, that's only a point of view; maybe I'm wrong with my explaination. (What I mean by intelligent is explaining why Garen must be still nerfed or why he must be buffed, I don't want QQ posting ''OMG you are so stupid Garen always killed me and my 4 health bars champion when I facecheck brush'' or that because one thing I said is wrong, all my post is wrong)

AlmightyDookie 01-04-2011 11:57 AM

Give it time dude. They don't wanna over buff him. I'm sure if he's still under powered they'll give him another buff. Go take an aspirin and be glad they're actually looking at him.

WILL SMlTH 01-04-2011 12:00 PM

reduces his judgement cd.

TychoVll 01-04-2011 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by AlmightyDookie (Hozzászólás 5145936)
Give it time dude. They don't wanna over buff him. I'm sure if he's still under powered they'll give him another buff. Go take an aspirin and be glad they're actually looking at him.


aiNpeace 01-04-2011 12:02 PM

garen rework

Q - Judgement - 1 Second CD
W - Judgement - 1 Second CD
E - Judgement - 1 Second CD
R - Demacian Justice

Chrizesu 01-04-2011 12:02 PM

Riot has said they're taking a slower approach on getting Garen back up to speed. While he was balanced, I can understand their concern on not wanting to return him to pubstomp status yet.

I am a Garen main and I can gladly say that the Judgement buff was a great step in the right direction. I'd even go so far to say that Garen has his foot back in the door of viability. I personally believe his scaling still needs to be touched up (he needs to be rewarded more than he is now when he builds "squishily") but I'm sure he'll arrive at a decent medium in the next patch.

What I don't like is the ridiculous amount of AD I have to feed myself to get up to snuff. I like to build crit, and it's hard to do such ludicrous amounts of both.

Slogra 01-04-2011 12:09 PM

I agree with most of your post. However, while stuns and slows counter Garen, they also help them. Garen + Taric = push terror; they won't last hit out of fear of being stunned then whirlwinded, and both are tanky and can push and farm like the best of carries.

I'd like to see the current Garen with a Taric/Sion/etc. lane. While I agree that champions shouldn't be so restrictive, I think he still has a place on certain teams.

BloodGod22 01-04-2011 12:11 PM

Wait just a second so i can get my bucket to gather the sweet sweet Garen player tears that i love to drink.

Reaper 01-04-2011 12:16 PM

they nerfed garen? i didnt notice, I did a game as garen a few days ago and went like 20-5. It should still be in my recent games.

alsowikk 01-04-2011 12:18 PM

At least the very small buff is better then nothing right?

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