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-   -   The new Sivir (guide) (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=382930)

Vijaya 12-07-2010 08:28 PM

The new Sivir (guide)
 
The new Sivir

Alternative title:

How to run away like a *****

I started playing back in the days of kiting/pushing teams, and Sivir was one of my favorite champions. The God-tier Aura Sivir, and it still has a ton of information on it, but unfortunately it's out of date to what Sivir can now do. Sivir is a stronger AD carry now than she ever was before, and she needs a new build to fit.

I'm going to use this guide to outline how I build Sivir and why, as well as talk a considerable bit about how exactly she should be played and the team compositions she works well with. This ISN'T an aura guide, that's dead in the water, and I'm going to assuming that you have some basic knowledge of her abilities.

There's some discussion going on about the Warmog + Atma Sivir. I'm posting my opinion of it in the NEXT post. It's not the build I use, so I don't feel it has a place in my guide.

Stuff to consider:

I'm going to list how Sivir deals damage, and what helps her:

Auto-attack
-Attack speed
-Armor penetration
-On-hit abilities
-Damage

Ricochet
-Attack speed
-Armor penetration
-Damage

Boomerang Blade
-Ability power
-CDR
-Damage
-Magic penetration

The focus of my playstyle is attack damage, since that buffs all of her abilities, with some attack speed and armor penetration thrown in to maximize her auto-attacks.

Pre-game setup:

Damage per level reds
Dodge yellows
Mana regen blues
Health quints

Damage per level reds will buff your auto-attacks, Rico hits and Boomerang Blade, so there's really no alternative. Armor pen works decently well to strength your auto-attacks, but is really shown up by damage per level.

Dodge stacks with your passive, and you're going to need it. Most other AD carries outrange Sivir, so she needs to make use of her passive and BB hits to whittle them down while keeping her health up.

Sivir needs mana to push, and unfortunately Tear or Chalice alone doesn't do it. Mana regen per level blues gives slightly less mana regen than yellows, while allowing you to take those awesome dodge yellows. With a full set of these, you'll be set to throw a BB every single creep wave and use a fair amount of Rico shots from either level 7 on (for Chalice) or from level 11 on (for Tear).

HP quints helps me hang earlier, since Sivir's extremely weak until she gets the mana pool/mana regen necessary to continuously pump BB's. Alternatively, you could use armor penetration, damage per level or move speed quints. Whatever works for you.

Masteries is a mixed bag. You want 9 points in defense for Nimbleness for sure. If you don't have faith in your ability to farm early game, bump it up to the full 21 in defense. However, that's not what I'd recommend. I'd go either 21/9/0 or 0/9/21. Both are solid, so fool around and figure out what works.

I'd also like to point out that the Utilities tree can really help with early game mana problems. If you're grabbing Chalice, you won't need the help, so I'd go Offensive. But if you're going Tear and are having problems early, grab Utility to help out a little.

Sivir has, as I see it, three extremely viable Summoner Spells.

Teleport

Teleport is a must have ability for pushing. It lets you pin the enemy to their bottom turret, then teleport top and knock that out before they can get to you. It also allows you to teleport to wards for surprise jungle ganks/team fights. Finally, it lets you BP as soon as you get enough gold for Tear without losing much experience. I love this spell on Sivir, and take it every game.

Flash

Sivir can outpush a lot of enemy characters, so I love having Flash available. It lets me push up to the enemy tower and slowly whittle it down, without having to worry about getting ganked. It also serves as a repositioning tool to keep you safe and dealing out damage during team fights. I usually take this ability.

Ghost

Over long distances, Ghost is superior to Flash when it comes to escaping. It can also serve well for when you're getting focused in team fights, and Flash isn't quite enough.

With that said, normally I take Teleport and Flash, but spec to the occasion. If you're planning on focusing exclusively on pushing, Teleport and Ghost are viable options. If you're running a strong AoE team fight team, take Flash and Ghost. Usually I'll switch between both play-styles depending on what is needed, so I like Teleport and Flash for the versatility.

Another option is Heal, but I would not recommend this unless you are with people you trust, and your positioning is amazing.

The build:

This is the part 90% of the people reading this guide are skipping to. SHAME ON YOU, GO READ THE “HOW TO PLAY” SECTION.

I'll list everything first, then talk about why after:

Meki Pendant and two pots
Tear and boots 1
Manamune and boots 2
BF Sword
Bloodthirster or Recurve Bow
Recurve Bow or Bloodthirster

After this, I'll buy what I need depending on the game. If everything's going well, Brutalizer to Ghostblade will max out your DPS against towers and enemy teams. However, if you find yourself kiting a lot and want extra damage for BB, grab another Bloodthirster. If you're getting focused in team fights, get a Banshee's Veil, which stacks with Manamune for an extra 8 damage. Not much, but every little bit helps. Finally, if the enemy team is stacking a ton of armor finish out LW.

On a side note, if you get super fed and already have Ghostblade, Stark's makes a great item. I prefer my support to grab Stark's so I can get LW, but if the enemy isn't stacking a lot of armor and no one else has it, Stark's is a better choice for your team.

My final build looks like this:
Manamune
Boots of your choice
Bloodthirster
Last Whisper or Stark's
Ghostblade
Second Bloodthirster or Veil
Tons and tons of elixers and wards

If you've been reading everything so far, you'll be saying “But what about Chalice? You've mentioned it already, but it isn't in your build!” That's because I don't use Chalice anymore, since I tend to cross from push strategy to team fighting and back. With that said, Chalice lets you ability spam much, much sooner than Tear does, and there's nothing saying you can't sell either item for better ones late game. If you want to push harder and faster, get Chalice and plan on selling it around level 15 or so.

Also, Banshee's Veil is great on Sivir no matter what, but I left Aegis of the Legion out of my build. I love Banshee's Veil because of the synergy I get between it and Manamune. If you're grabbing Chalice, and no one else on your team gets Aegis, get it. You should only be grabbing Chalice if you're going with a pure pushing strategy, and Aegis is a better option in that situation since it effects your creeps.

Skilling order:

Q
E
Q
W
Q
R

After this, max R, Q, W, E.

Only exception is if you're laning against an idiot that keeps chucking spells at you. I might pump another point into Spell Shield at 4th level just to keep my mana up, but be aware that doing this hurts your ability to push the lane and wipe creeps quickly, especially once from around levels 6-10.

I'm not going to argue why maxing Rico first is dumb. Go read the God-Tier Aura Sivir guide, QUICKSLIDE has a ton of posts already.

How to play:

This is the meat and potatoes of what Sivir is. If you're effective, you'll have a handful of kills, a small amount of deaths, tons and tons of assists, and hopefully more turret kills than the rest of your team combined. If you aren't effective, your team is probably *****ing about how UP Sivir is. I'm dividing this section up into early, mid and late game.

Keep in mind that there are TWO ways to play Sivir: AD carry and push strategy. AD carry involves throwing down BB and auto-attacks to deal as much damage as possible, while push strat involves kiting and forcing the enemy team to defend one set of towers while you hit another. My advice below mixes both of these together, and I suggest you learn both well. Sivir is the best pusher in the game, and teleporting to lane to push can be game changing. But Sivir can also deal out consistent AoE physical damage, something only Ashe comes close to doing, and therefore she can also be game changing for AoE/teamfight teams. Figure out what your team does well, learn to play both of these ways, and play Sivir as the situation demands.

Early game:

You're taking middle lane, no questions asked. Sivir is an incredible farmer once she gets a few levels into BB, and she can put tons of pressure on the enemy tower very early on. However, if she has to take a solo top or bottom lane, pushing that far out will mean getting ganked. Middle is relatively safe, even when extending to the enemy tower, so grab mid.

Last hit all you can, using BB if you have to, but generally trying to avoid ability spamming early. BB will apply damage to all the creeps and push the lane up, and for your first several levels you should try to get the enemy to push to your tower. Until Sivir gets 3 ranks in BB she can't reliably last hit with it, and her auto-attack range is short, so you want the turret their to keep you safe. Don't worry about taking some damage, since you have Teleport and will be heading home very quickly.

The goal is to hit either 675 or 1125 gold before you have to go back to base. The first gets you Tear and two pots, the second gets you Tear and boots 1 and two pots. Tele back to lane after. If you're taking Chalice, readjust those gold values; they'll be smaller.

You should be around level 6 by the time you Teleport, which means at least 3 ranks in BB. From here on out use BB, along with Rico, to last hit creeps and push the enemy to their tower. You should be able to get a few hits off each wave.

If you can hit the enemy with BB, specifically a double hit, do so. If you can hit the enemy and their creeps with BB, even better. BB will hurt once you get it to rank 3, and once Sivir hits level 9 it's arguably the strongest single-hit nuke in the game. Use this to your advantage and double-hit the enemy and try to get them out of lane. If they leave, you hopefully have enough mana to BB a creep wave and take it out, then use your ult on yourself and your creeps to wipe a ton of damage from the tower. If you can kill the enemy mid, it's not unusual for a Sivir between 6 and 9 to take out at least half of the middle towers health, if not wipe it entirely.

Figure out how to last hit with BB. Good enemies won't get hit by BB; it's really an easy projectile to dodge, mind games aside. If they are dodging, figure out the combination of Ricochet hits and BB you need to wipe the whole creep wave. After level 7 there's no excuse for Sivir to miss a single creep from a wave. Push towers if you can, harass the enemy if you can, but most importantly farm up your Manamane and first Thirster as fast as you can. This part of the game is all about gaining an advantage over the enemy carries as quickly as you can.

Once you get two or three ranks in BB, Sivir can kill the jungle creeps near her, specifically their and your wraith camp and the wolf camp, very quickly. Run in front of them, toss a BB and a few Rico'd auto-attacks, run back to lane. A little bit of extra gold and experience never hurt anyone, but if you're doing this pay attention to your jungle. If they're hitting blue/red buff, you probably just snatched some XP from them, and they need it more than you do. If they're off ganking or recalling, you'll probably be safe, since these camps have small respawn times.

Middle game:

A couple towers should be down by now, either the enemies or you're own. This is just a chance for more farming. Sivir can keep two lanes pushed very easily: BB and Rico a wave or two, then run to another lane and repeat, then run to your first lane and repeat. Sivir should be outfarming everyone else on the field, use that to your advantage!

In this part of the game it's important to ward ward ward ward ward. Get wards everywhere, make sure you know where the entire enemy team is all the time. If you know they're going to push bottom, go push top. Your team can defend, you can get mad amounts of loot, and Sivir alone can knock towers over quickly. With that said, know when to GTFO. Doing half damage to a tower and living to fight another day is much more important than destroying a tower and giving the enemy team blood.

If you have to team fight at this point, make sure to stay behind your support and tanks. Sivir wants to attack the closest thing she can. Yes, that means the enemy tank/tower/creeps/whatever. You aren't Tristana, you don't have the range to single out the enemy carry. If you're following my build, you'll have tons of AD and some armor pen, and that'll be sufficient to deal a big chunk of damage to the enemy carry even if they're only taking damage from Rico bounces.

Try to conserve Sivir's ult for hitting towers, but if you need it to get away from a gank or to win a team fight, do so. The CD is short, it'll be up by the time you're ready for your next big push. Always question if your ults were good or not, and figure out when they're necessary and when you can save them.

Keep in mind that Sivir's escape mechanisms are rather weak, and she's squishy as all hell. If you block one stun with SS and the enemy hits you with another, you're probably going to die. With that in mind, use the movespeed from your ult and Flash to reposition yourself to safety during teamfights, NOT to chase and kill enemy champs. Sivir needs every tool she has available to be able to deal damage, and that means conserving Flash and SS until you need them.

Late game:

If you're doing it right, Sivir is a beast by this point, but a frail one. A Banshee's Veil can help, if you need it, otherwise play super conservatively. Sivir needs to be alive to deal damage, and that means you have to enter the fight last and target well. Remember that hitting an enemy tank spreads AoE damage to the whole team, so if you have to focus on the enemy tank, do so.

Kiting is Sivir's best friend. You should have so much damage by this point that BB does a ton of damage. Kite them as long as you can, building up as much damage as possible before fighting. Either they'll force their way to your tower and force a fight, or they'll retreat back, in which case you can push to their tower and do some damage before they regroup with full life, or force a fight under their tower if they come to fight while injured.

If they do choose to fight under tower, remember that Sivir can damage the entire team while hitting the tower. If you have a team with people like Janna or Alistar you can force them away, then hit the tower and take it out while dealing damage to the entire enemy team.

A word about wards:

I'm mentioning it again here for good measure. Keep everything warded, all the time. As Sivir you don't have the escape mechanisms other carries have, so your best friend is solid map awareness. Use wards, stay alive, push towers.

A note about Sivir:

The final advice I can impart to you is to be aware of the kind of team you're playing in. Sivir can deal out some serious AoE damage, so she has a well deserve spot on AoE teams. She can also push harder than anyone else in the game, so she has a spot on push teams.

Be aware of what kind of team comp you're building, and tailor your build and playstyle to that. Push teams are going to involve a lot more kiting and pushing, so Teleport and Heal work wonders. Team fight teams, on the other hand, may require Flash and Ghost, since you have to be more concerned with staying away from the real damage dealers and positioning correctly, as opposed to simply running away. Be aware of both of these options and you're Sivir will improve dramatically.

Vijaya 12-07-2010 08:30 PM

Reserved for space.

I'll be going through and editing this as I can. I've been meaning to write a Sivir guide for some time; I played her once after the BB buff and I knew she was an incredible carry. Unfortunately, school has been hectic, so I haven't spent the time I needed on this guide until Elementz forced my hand by moving Sivir to the top. I've got finals this week and next, but after that I'm going to put in some serious playtime and refine this guide.

I'm planning on adding a section talking about team comps that work well with her, a discussion of the different kinds of boots and what works when, and more detail about why the Atma's/Warmong's build is UP. I'll also link the God-Tier Aura Sivir once I'm not lazy lol. Any other suggestions/comments/questions are welcomed.

I just want to mention that I don't always have the kind of people I need to play Sivir effectively. I'm always looking for new people to ranked with, specifically people who are fluent in push strategy based teams. Feel free to add me, invite me, whatever you gotta do, just to play. I wanna get my ELO up as high as I can, and I don't mind play with new players to show them how to Siv.

Some thoughts on Warmog/Atma Sivir

I've tried this out a few times, a few different ways. The most successful run I had with it was rushing a Bloodthirster, then getting Warmog's, but that game ended before I got Atma's.

The problem with this build is that it sacrifices your early game damage, which means sacrificing your ability to push and farm well. Sivir with Manamune and a BF Sword can destroy two creep waves faster than a lot of champs can destroy one. With my build, you'll have more AD faster, meaning more damage, pushing and farming mid game, meaning an even better end game. I really can't say it enough; my build will get you more DPS faster, and result in you being an actual carry. Warmog/Atma Sivir can't carry, but my Sivir can.

What the Warmog/Atma's build brings is more survability. I'm not going to deny you'll survive better with that build, but I generally don't have problems surviving unless I've ****ed up big time. Playing with a good team good, with good map awareness, with a solid ability to SS strong nukes or CCs that come at you, and with good positioning will keep you alive. Stay back and BB until the fight starts, don't enter until the CC is blown, and focusing the enemy tank, will mean that you deal a ton of damage without taking too much yourself.

If you get Manamune, Warmog's, Atma's and Veil, you have around 250 damage, which makes for some pretty decent damage. Unfortunetly, your attack speed is low when your ult is down and you're completely lacking in armor penetration, so your damage still isn't that good. You can throw some strong BBs, but again, my build will give you stronger BBs. You don't need survivability to BB since you can hide behind your tanks, so the build is still wasted.

Staying alive with Sivir comes with experience, and it takes a good team comp and good positioning. I rarely have problems staying alive with my build, and with Warmog's and Atma's I was invincible, but I was also ignorable. If you're having problems staying alive as Sivir, feel free to use that build, but understand that it isn't going to give you the kind of AD or power you have.

scotchguy 12-07-2010 08:47 PM

Amen... tested and I giggled.

Anzila 12-07-2010 09:54 PM

Boomerang Blade. I use it from time to time, but almost always for clearing creeps, or against a melee hero who is too close to dodge. Despite its wide hitbox, most heroes, particularly the ranged types who will be midding, dodge to the side and never get hit by either pass. How do you deal with this?

Vijaya 12-07-2010 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anzila (Hozzászólás 4573725)
Boomerang Blade. I use it from time to time, but almost always for clearing creeps, or against a melee hero who is too close to dodge. Despite its wide hitbox, most heroes, particularly the ranged types who will be midding, dodge to the side and never get hit by either pass. How do you deal with this?

Some people dodge in extremely predictable ways, IE always going left. In that case, you aim to the left.

Other times, you can bait a dodge out of someone, then punish their reaction after you see which way they're going.

Good players won't let you hit, even with those two things in mind. In that case, I aim BB at their creeps and force them back to tower. If the CD is up again, you can BB them whenever you see them turn around to deal with the creeps, otherwise you can farm with BB and maintain a safe distance and simply not worry about harassing. Both of you getting farmed is a better option than you feeding them.

Jo Lancaster 12-07-2010 10:48 PM

The way i hit people with my boomerang is that i try to stand near the creeps if i can and i wait till i see them start to move forward. then i just throw it as they walk towards me.

Also in terms of the atma's warmogs build. I find it nice because you are lot harder to kill, but the damage output won't be as high as if you go a more pure dps build.

And i try to grab banshees veil as early as possible, stacks great with your spell shield

DoransTroll 12-08-2010 12:09 AM

Dont worry too much about mana. Get half mana5/lvl yellows (no need for all of them. I'm currently running only 3), mana pots (translates to nearly infinite amount of Ricochets), and grab Shurylia's Reverie. The extra speed burst on top of Ghost and her ult will get you out of any nasty situation you could ever get into.

RoflTroll 12-08-2010 01:19 AM

So let me get this straight, you find Warmog/Atma builds to fail because it's not true-tank's level of survival(despite over 1000 HP and 45 armor), but your build offers even less defense, 0 health, armor or MR until Banshee...

So why is it that a tankier, less damaging Sivir is somehow weaker than your mostly glasscannon build? The reason tanky DPS meta works is because tanky DPS outlast glasscannon DPS.

My most recent attempt on 'tanky' Sivir was Banshee and Atma, which gives me a good amount of HP, armor and MR altogether, and I still have decent DPS (and I can actually stick around to do damage).

Vijaya 12-08-2010 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoransTroll (Hozzászólás 4575082)
Dont worry too much about mana. Get half mana5/lvl yellows (no need for all of them. I'm currently running only 3), mana pots (translates to nearly infinite amount of Ricochets), and grab Shurylia's Reverie. The extra speed burst on top of Ghost and her ult will get you out of any nasty situation you could ever get into.

I'll try Reverie out. My main focus with the guide, though, is to get as much DPS as possible as quickly as possible, so you can outdamage/farm the enemy team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoflTroll (Hozzászólás 4575603)
So let me get this straight, you find Warmog/Atma builds to fail because it's not true-tank's level of survival(despite over 1000 HP and 45 armor), but your build offers even less defense, 0 health, armor or MR until Banshee...

So why is it that a tankier, less damaging Sivir is somehow weaker than your mostly glasscannon build? The reason tanky DPS meta works is because tanky DPS outlast glasscannon DPS.

My most recent attempt on 'tanky' Sivir was Banshee and Atma, which gives me a good amount of HP, armor and MR altogether, and I still have decent DPS (and I can actually stick around to do damage).

I find Warmog's/Atma's fails because those two items alone cost nearly 5,500 damage, and because it offers nothing to Sivir's base damage until she completes Atma's. This also means she won't be farming as well.

My build is better because it offers higher damage output sooner. Survability comes from play-style (how many times do I say to stay away and hit whatever is closest to deal damage) and team composition (Shen, Galio, Morgana, people that can protect Sivir, are NECESSARY).

If the enemy builds a tanky DPS team, you should be focusing on pushing. They won't have the kind of mobility you have, so pin them to one turret and knock over all of the others. If the enemy isn't tanky, team fight your heart out. Building Warmog's and Atma's might keep you alive in those team fights, but you'll be doing pathetic amounts of DPS and won't have the option of pushing, since you'll be doing almost no damage to towers.

Bootlick 12-08-2010 06:27 AM

When you call another build terrible it makes reader's like myself assume you are a 1-dimensional player that has rolled a few times with there build and offers no real new information on a character that you suggest ROLFERSTOMPS solely because
"you do more damage" and have played with them B.C.

Thanks,


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