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-   -   Udyr the viable [discussion] [item guide] (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=34127)

SonicTheHedgedawg 12-09-2009 08:45 AM

Udyr the viable [discussion] [item guide]
 
people keep saying udyr sucks and I just don't get it.

I can really see him being underpowered, but not to the extent that he should elicit queue dodging. He is not terrible, or even bad. he's just not that great.


Anyway, I think with Udyr it can come down to how you level his abilities.

if you are jungling, focus on turtle, with focus on phoenix as well. get bear when you are ready to come out to help gank.

if you are laning, focus phoenix with some additional focus on turtle. Get bear earlier than jungling, and level it quicker.


Get tiger last and only get 3 levels of it.



For itemization, final build should look like:
  • Rod of Ages
  • Ninja Tabi or Mercury Treads
  • Nashor's Tooth
  • Lich Bane
  • Frozen Mallet
  • Zhonya's Ring, Innervating Locket or even Banshee's veil if it proves necessary.


if you are laning, get ruby crystal first and rush catalyst. you could probably rush 2 catalysts if you knew you were going to get innervating locket or banshee's veil as your final item, but I never make that decsision that early.

Next, get boots.

get sheen for its awesome effects on your rapid stance changes.

Get nashor's tooth starting with stinger to allow for quicker, deadlier stance changes and more mana regen to spam them. The AP helps turthe absorb more and pheonix hit harder. since those are the 2 best stances, it's a fine combination.

upgrade to rod of ages around level 18

get lich bane to hit harder now that you have the ability power to do so.

frozen mallet gives MORE survivability and applies slows in addition to bear stun which is nice.

finally, innervating locket goes well with how often you spam cast, but zhonya's beefs you up. Whatever you need more.




I'm kinda in a hurry, but this is a good build that's been working for me.

Thoughts?

Jack 0f Fools 12-09-2009 10:20 AM

Sonic: The idea of an AP udyr is a bit foreign to me, but one thing I noticed that stands out in your build is this. You are relying on Lichbane/stancedancing for damage, but you are taking Frozen mallet for a stun.

Why not use Rylai's Crystal Scepter. The stun from your bearform would apply it, the aoe from your phoenix would apply it, and the intiial strike from Tiger would apply it. Not only that, but it still provides the health you need and further boosts your damage by adding another +80 AP to your LichBane Nuke.

This is just my two cents, but I'm definitely going to be messing with this when I get home. Thanks for the ideas :D

SonicTheHedgedawg 12-09-2009 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack 0f Fools (Hozzászólás 379190)
Sonic: The idea of an AP udyr is a bit foreign to me, but one thing I noticed that stands out in your build is this. You are relying on Lichbane/stancedancing for damage, but you are taking Frozen mallet for a stun.

Why not use Rylai's Crystal Scepter. The stun from your bearform would apply it, the aoe from your phoenix would apply it, and the intiial strike from Tiger would apply it. Not only that, but it still provides the health you need and further boosts your damage by adding another +80 AP to your LichBane Nuke.

This is just my two cents, but I'm definitely going to be messing with this when I get home. Thanks for the ideas :D

Udyr doesn't have a single targeted spell, so I'm FAIRLY certain rylai's sceptre will never apply a slowing effect.

if it were to do so, I'd DEFINITELY use it over mallet for the reasons you mentioned, but I do not believe that it does.


AP Udyr is legit.

At 200 AP, histurtle shield will absorb 100 more damage before it disapears, his pheonix active will deall 200 extra damage over its 5 second aura and his pheonix passive will hit harder every 3rd hit. which, BTW, will proc more often due to stance dancing (especially between pheonix and tiger stances) and Nashor's Tooth.

really you should try it.

AFKray 12-09-2009 01:07 PM

The reason why people say Udyr is useless is for 2 reasons.

1) his early game is so utterly terrible that any smart team will just farm off of him. If he is jungling, then it's pretty easy to know where he is.

2) He brings nothing to team fights that another hero can't do BETTER. The concept of Udyr is cool, but the point to be made is that he is just a inferior option in almost every aspect.

TiredDaemon 12-09-2009 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicTheHedgedawg (Hozzászólás 378918)
people keep saying udyr sucks and I just don't get it.


I'm kinda in a hurry, but this is a good build that's been working for me.

Thoughts?

The problem with your build is that you build for AP damage and using lichbane to hit hard, which is perfectly fine. The issue is that there are lots of heroes that can fill that same role and all of them do it better. The problem with Udyr is that he can do several things pretty well if you spec him towards them (tanking, harassing, dps), but any other hero can do any of those three things better than he can.

SonicTheHedgedawg 12-09-2009 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFKush (Hozzászólás 379831)
The reason why people say Udyr is useless is for 2 reasons.

1) his early game is so utterly terrible that any smart team will just farm off of him. If he is jungling, then it's pretty easy to know where he is.

2) He brings nothing to team fights that another hero can't do BETTER. The concept of Udyr is cool, but the point to be made is that he is just a inferior option in almost every aspect.


-His early game is NOT utterly terrible. It's one of the worse early games out there, but it isn't pathetically bad. And if he lanes with someone like soraka or taric, he has no problem

-inferior maybe. but inferior is a far cry from USELESS

PerfectionLost 12-09-2009 03:44 PM

Udyr is not a bad hero, he's just not a good one. That's his main problem.

I've also seen a fair number of Udyr players who say "I push so well," and then don't team fight.

The 1 second stun is his best ability in terms of team fights, and that is a pretty short stun even if you go and hit every player on their team once and then start over A real teamfight is over before you can apply it twice.

In a decisive teamfight the phoenix stance will never hit for it's full duration.

If you get focus fired, a couple extra hundred HP really doesn't matter that much.

Double your attack damage over 3 seconds is... well not very good. If you go all attack items, you may hit hard, but you are squishy. If you don't its not very much damage.

What he is lacking is either spike damage, or mobility with follow up. Sure he has bear stance, but what he does after doesn't really matter.

Rammus for example speeds in, and then taunts someone to attack him for 3-4 seconds, and can even pull the enemy out of the croud (bear stance). His aoe ult is better (phoenix), and he stacks armor (turtle stance) because of his passive, which increases his damage all the time (tiger).

IMHO the way to fix him is to actually give him an ultimate. If he had one stance that was substantially better then the rest--aka it was ultimate--he would stand a chance. In the meantime he has 4 regular skills that don't set him appart from any other hero.

PerfectionLost 12-09-2009 03:48 PM

Also, who ever heard of a life stealing turtle.

Just throwing that one out there.

Pocky Snacks 12-09-2009 03:56 PM

Quote:

He is not terrible, or even bad. he's just not that great.
Quote:

Udyr is not a bad hero, he's just not a good one.
Udyr is not very bad, nor is he any good. He just FAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSSOHAR DFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAIL SFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAIL SFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAIL SFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAIL SFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAIL SFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILSFAILS

Joru 12-09-2009 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack 0f Fools (Hozzászólás 379190)
Why not use Rylai's Crystal Scepter. The stun from your bearform would apply it, the aoe from your phoenix would apply it, and the intiial strike from Tiger would apply it. Not only that, but it still provides the health you need and further boosts your damage by adding another +80 AP to your LichBane Nuke.

Even if it works for the bear stun, since the stun is 1 second and the slow effect is 1.5, you get an amazing half-second of slowing per application. The Phoenix passive is AoE, so it'd get the reduced 15% slow if it works at all. And this build obviously doesn't focus much on Tiger.

The Frozen Mallet works at its full effect in every stance and can be kept up permanently, which is doubly important given that Udyr's chasing ability is pretty bad.


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