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-   -   [Guide] An Updated Veigar Guide (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=331396)

SprinkKnoT 11-07-2010 04:32 PM

[Guide] Finally, a New Veigar Guide
 
I. Introduction
II. Masteries
III. Summoner Spells
IV. Runes
V. Skill Analysis
VI. Skill Builds
VII. Item Builds
VIII. Gameplay
IX. Conclusion

I. Introduction
Veigar is a champ not to be underestimated. Of course he is not a champ to be overestimated. He is actually one of the harder nuke type champs to play. He is harder for two reasons, lane phase and his combo. During lane phase Veigar must play extremely passive and farm like crazy since it helps him snowball like a madman. Veigar's combo is significantly harder to pull of compared to Annie or Ryze's because of the delay on meteor and the fact that his stun only stuns on the edge. Regardless of these facts, if Veigar is mastered, he can kill nearly anyone in one combo, sometimes even squishies in just one ult.

II. Masteries
For Masteries I tend to go 9/0/21. This is pretty much the usual caster setup. Getting the Spell Pen in the offensive tree then in the utility tree getting everything related to mana regen and the improved flash mastery.

III. Summoner Spells
Summoner spells are a little based on you as a player. Depends on what how you play. I personally find cleanse + flash to be the best. Here's a list of which spells are useful and which ones, not so much.

Useful or worth taking: Cleanse, Flash, and Ghost
Useable ( I suppose) but I wouldn't: Ignite, Exhaust, Teleport, Clairvoyance, Heal, and Clarity
DO NOT TAKE: Rally, Revive, Smite, and Fortify

Cleanse, Flash and Ghost are very good on Veigar because he is extremely weak in the escape department. A combination of any 2 of these makes sufficient in escape (not the best, but manageable).

All the spells in the second row are helpful but as I said Veigar will die if caught, don't let them catch Veigar.

Now the last 4 should be pretty obvious why they are bad.

Rally – Veigar isn't good at pushing towers nor is Rally good on any champ as of now.
Smite – Veigar would be a terrible champ at Smiting, plus your last hits should be with your Q, not Smite.
Revive – Don't die
Fortify – It really doesn't do anything to make Veigar better at all or help him survive better.

IV. Runes
Quintessences: I go Flat Hp on all champs since I like being just a little bit tankier at early levels. I could see Flat AP working but I haven't tried it.

Red: I go Magic Pen since I'm not doing a full AP rune page.

Yellow: I go Mana Reg/Level because it helps, and despite Veigar's passive he still needs it.

Blue: I go CDR/Level because by level 13 it surpasses flat CDR, which is when you start to max out all your spells and start to gank.

V. Skill Analysis

Q: Baleful Strike - Unleashes dark energy at target enemy dealing magic damage. If a unit is killed, Veigar gains some ability power permanently.Active: Unleashes dark energy at target enemy dealing 80/125/170/215/260 (+0.6) magic damage. If the target is killed, Veigar gains 1 ability power. Passive: Veigar gains 1/2/3/4/5 ability power when he kills a champion from any source of damage.

Your main skill. When laning use this to get last hits if it is up. Prioritize getting last hits with this over harassing or anything. This is what builds Veigar's AP and makes him snowball so well.

W: Dark Matter -
Veigar calls a great mass of dark matter to fall from the sky to the target location, dealing magic damage when it lands. After 1.2 seconds, dark matter falls from the sky to the target location, dealing 120/170/220/270/320 (+1) magic damage.

This is Veigar's big aoe nuke. The thing that makes him do A LOT of damage to everyone. Only problem is it is hard to land on anyone paying attention. To use this skill the best you place it then immediately follow with his stun. If in a teamfight and you already blew your main combo just use this in the middle, it is bound to hit someone or cause them to move meaning they stop what they are doing.

E: Event Horizon - Veigar twists the edges of space around the target location for 3 seconds, stunning enemies who pass through the perimeter for a short duration. Veigar twists the edges of space around the target location for 3 seconds, stunning enemies who pass through the perimeter for 1.5/1.75/2/2.25/2.5 seconds.

Veigar's unique as hell stun. While being tough to land at first, once mastered it becomes one of the best stuns in game and also makes for great escapes and disruptions of teamfights. Basically drop your W on someone then right after place this. They will be locked in pace as the meteor hits them. Then follow up with your Q and R and bam they are dead.


R: Primordial Burst -
Blasts target enemy champion, dealing magic damage plus the combined AP of Veigar and his target. Blasts an enemy champion, dealing 250/375/500 (+1) plus his target's AP in magic damage.

The biggest nuke in the game. This does considerable to damage to anyone use this on someone who isn't a tank and they are gonna die. End game where Veigar has 800+ AP this will be hitting for an insane amount and if they enemy just happens to be a caster they don't have a chance. This skill can easily 1 shot a Karthus who thought going 5 arcangels was a good idea.


[Passive] Equilibrium -
Veigar's mana regen is increased by 0.5% for each 1% of mana missing.

Not the greatest passive but it's useful. Helps Veigar stay in the lane and get those last hits longer and makes it so he doesn't need to waste a slot on a pure mana regen item.

VI. Skill Builds

1.Q
2.E
3.Q
4.W
5.Q
6.R
7.Q
8.E
9.Q
10.W
11.R
12.W
13.W
14.W
15.E
16.R
17.E
18.E
This build prioritizes on getting Q first for easier farming and so when you get kills on enemy champs you get more AP. I get 2 in E before I max W is so you have a little more leeway with the meteor stun combo.

VII. Item Builds
Meki Pendant + 2 Health Pots
Meki Pendant → Tear of Goddess
Boots 1
Mejai's Soulstealer
Sorcerer Shoes
Tear of Goddess → Archangels Staff
Void Staff
Zhonya's Ring
Lich Bane

Explanation
-Meki Pendent at level 1 gives you the ability to farm with your Q longer.
-A Tear of Goddess to build into Archangels later and also give you much needed mana which gets charged fast with Q. (When ever in base place both your W and E to charge up the Tear).
-Boots are helpful for moving around since Veigar is slow
- Mejai's Soulstealer is a must in every game. Veigar is meant to snowball. If he doesn't snowball he is going to be mediocre all game. Therefore get it regardless since if you do start snowballing you'll have it.
- Sorcerer Shoes give magic pen and better movement so its a must for a nuke
- Archangels Staff gives a ton of AP and more mana. Both essential things on a Veigar
- Void Staff Shuts down anyone who things getting magic resist against you will help. It makes your combo unbeatable by anyone who has under 150 magic resistance.
- Zhonya's Ring is an obvious choice for any AP user since is grants a huge increase in AP plus a very helpful active.
- Lich Bane gives Veigar a 4th nuke. Since by the time he gets Lich aben he has ~800+ AP every attack after you cast something will now do at least 800+ damage. Meaning 1 auto attack after your combo adds another 800 damage.

VIII. Gameplay
Veigar has very linear game play. Each game he has an agenda that he must fulfill so he can do what he wants mid to late game.
Early Game
FARM. Just stay in your lane and last hit creeps with your Q. DO NOT AUTO ATTACK MINIONS. Having your lane pushed in anyway makes last hitting much harder and much more dangerous. This is why I recommend having mid or a solo lane with Veigar since I like to play him at my tower just last hitting slowly becoming a truck.
Mid Game
Once you are bout 14 and have Mejai's Veigar can start walking around the map and nuking squishies. Of course play safe, don't go wandering through your jungle. Just walk down to a laneand then pop your combo on a squishy that underestimates you. This charges up both your Q's passive and Mejai's meaning you gain 21 AP every kill. When you have the chance last hit more creeps with your Q or drop your meteor on the caster minions. It will most likely 1 hit all of them and quickly get you gold and have your minions push tier towers.
Late Game
This is where 800+ AP Veigar exists. NEVER BE ALONE. Always be with your team. In a teamfight find their squishy, and blow your combo on it, they WILL die if you have 800+ AP. After your job is just to run back in and out dropping meteors and using Q on the next squishy as long as you know you are safe. The key to Veigar is being dangerous, while being safe. Don't go for a kill if you will get killed. Wait to use your combo until you have a chance to get someone without risk. Once Veigar is known to be a problem another team will target him and Veigar can't do **** to stop it. Because of this just be a huge nuisance until you get the chance to eradicate atleast one of their team mates. I've had games where as a late game Veigar I would drop 1 meteor on an Ashe and it would knock out 90% of her health. None of Veigar's skills are to be taken lightly by themselves, and when strung together they become the scariest thing to any champ.

IX. Conclusion
Veigar is imo the hardest nuke in the game. He has 1 hard to land stun, a very difficult to land aoe nuke, and 2 huge single target nukes. Despite his difficulty he is immensely rewarding. If the meteor stun combo can be mastered Veigar can beat any champ 1v1 mid or late game. Of course his mid and late game are dependent on having a good early game. Having around 60-70 AP before any AP items makes for a great start to a game and will give him enough of a push to start snowballing. I picture Veigar as a very steep mountain. It takes a little bit to get to the top, but once you reach the peak he can roll down that mountain faster then anyone gaining more momentum then any other champ in the game.

StyrTW 11-07-2010 04:39 PM

Veigar should be quaffing brilliance elixirs nonstop once you have a bit of farming under your belt. DFG is a pretty good item that adds another spell to his combo, but you have to get used to it for maximum damage.

SprinkKnoT 11-07-2010 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StyrTW (Hozzászólás 3935138)
Veigar should be quaffing brilliance elixirs nonstop once you have a bit of farming under your belt. DFG is a pretty good item that adds another spell to his combo, but you have to get used to it for maximum damage.

I've tried getting elixirs throughout the whole game, but saving the gold always ends up being a better investment imo. The only time I get elixirs is once I finish my build since and have a lot of gold left over.

As for DFG I have tried it but I always have seen it more of an item for champs that have poor nukes. All of Veigar's nukes have huge ratios so getting items with huge amounts of AP on them benefit hit more then another nuke that is worse then his already built in nukes. Lichbane gives more AP then DFG and gives him a more constant nuke (about 900 damage every 3 seconds rather then 1.5k every 1 minute).

Umibozu 11-07-2010 04:54 PM

Just skimmed, faults:

No Deathfire. Deathfire is the best item for Veigar. Veigar is all about burst, single target damage. Get a combo with every ability plus Deathfire is an instakill on any squishy just after laning phase.

Also, Clarity is excellent on Veigar as its one of the only ways Veigar can constantly use Baleful early game i.e. getting around 60+ AP will make Mid-game and End-game a breeze. Brilliance Elixers are also very good on Veigar because they increase his snowball potential. Mejai's IMO is actually unnecessary (at least for my build: Sorc Boots/Rod of Ages/Deathfire/Zhonyas, and you want to complete Deathfire as soon as possible just to start instagibbing people and by then you just don't have room for Mejais).

EDIT-IN: Also, as I'm sure you know, Veigar is the type of champion that to be good, he has to 'get the ball rolling', and Brilliance Pots do that very well. And also, if you buy an item, and then you have like 324 gold or something, always always get a Brilliance Pot (or occasionally a couple wards).

Also, your build has no health. Blinking/jumping champions are mega-counters to Veigar (like Kass, especially, but thats also because of his silence/passive) and they generally pump out a lot of damage. A good player with a champion like that will often kill a Veig without health pretty easily or at least get him low before you can event horizon them.

In my experience, side laning with another champion is better because he needs someone to babysit him and hold off the opposing laners. Then again, I duo queue and plan for this.

Back to DFG, you seem to fit its role with Lichbane, but that becomes good too late in the game. You need that extra nuking power earlier.

<-- Quick analysis from an experienced Veigar lover (he's my most played).

StyrTW 11-07-2010 04:55 PM

Eh, DFG does scale with AP quite well which is something Veigar has in droves. I usually do buy Lichbane as my last item but Void Staff is more of a situational item in my opinion, I only buy it if their squishy champs are stacking MR to counter me, or if my whole team is AP (sigh).

Umibozu 11-07-2010 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StyrTW (Hozzászólás 3935472)
Eh, DFG does scale with AP quite well which is something Veigar has in droves. I usually do buy Lichbane as my last item but Void Staff is more of a situational item in my opinion, I only buy it if their squishy champs are stacking MR to counter me, or if my whole team is AP (sigh).

After my core which is around 10,000g worth of items (I get a little farther in an average game), I sometimes get a Lichbane or a Void Staff. It depends if they have lots of resistances or if we are lacking pushers, etc.

SprinkKnoT 11-07-2010 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umibozu (Hozzászólás 3935467)
Just skimmed, faults:

No Deathfire. Deathfire is the best item for Veigar. Veigar is all about burst, single target damage. Get a combo with every ability plus Deathfire is an instakill on any squishy just after laning phase.

Also, Clarity is excellent on Veigar as its one of the only ways Veigar can constantly use Baleful early game i.e. getting around 60+ AP will make Mid-game and End-game a breeze. Brilliance Elixers are also very good on Veigar because they increase his snowball potential. Mejai's IMO is actually unnecessary (at least for my build: Sorc Boots/Rod of Ages/Deathfire/Zhonyas, and you want to complete Deathfire as soon as possible just to start instagibbing people and by then you just don't have room for Mejais).

EDIT-IN: Also, as I'm sure you know, Veigar is the type of champion that to be good, he has to 'get the ball rolling', and Brilliance Pots do that very well. And also, if you buy an item, and then you have like 324 gold or something, always always get a Brilliance Pot (or occasionally a couple wards).

Also, your build has no health. Blinking/jumping champions are mega-counters to Veigar (like Kass, especially, but thats also because of his silence/passive) and they generally pump out a lot of damage. A good player with a champion like that will often kill a Veig without health pretty easily or at least get him low before you can event horizon them.

In my experience, side laning with another champion is better because he needs someone to babysit him and hold off the opposing laners. Then again, I duo queue and plan for this.

Back to DFG, you seem to fit its role with Lichbane, but that becomes good too late in the game. You need that extra nuking power earlier.

<-- Quick analysis from an experienced Veigar lover (he's my most played).

I never really see Elixirs making that big of a difference. But when I play Veigar I do exactly what I said I do in my guide, farm till mid game. I play very very passive unless someone tower dives me because getting that early kill really makes no difference compared to just straight out farming. And I see DFG and void staff filling the same roll. Blowing DFG on a squishy is stupid since they have low health and can be killed in a combo or less. Tankier champs however have more health and more magic resist. I guess many people pick DFG to deal with this while I instead take Voidstaff to make his regular nukes not only stronger against tanks, but also stronger on squishies who have any MR.

Now about Mejai's I think it is perfect on him just because it gives so much AP and Veigar needs to snowball period in order to be good. I think Veigar needs to have lots of AP to make a difference as a nuke since I feel he is the biggest AP carry and having 1000 AP is what makes him good.

About the lack of health and champs like Kassadin I rarely have a problem with champs like that because I am never the rush into combat and combo a person kind of player. I play Veigar very passively and take advantage of the enemy team's mistakes. Veigar is a hard counter to bad positioning.

Umibozu 11-08-2010 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SprinkKnoT (Hozzászólás 3935864)
I never really see Elixirs making that big of a difference. But when I play Veigar I do exactly what I said I do in my guide, farm till mid game. I play very very passive unless someone tower dives me because getting that early kill really makes no difference compared to just straight out farming. And I see DFG and void staff filling the same roll. Blowing DFG on a squishy is stupid since they have low health and can be killed in a combo or less. Tankier champs however have more health and more magic resist. I guess many people pick DFG to deal with this while I instead take Voidstaff to make his regular nukes not only stronger against tanks, but also stronger on squishies who have any MR.

Now about Mejai's I think it is perfect on him just because it gives so much AP and Veigar needs to snowball period in order to be good. I think Veigar needs to have lots of AP to make a difference as a nuke since I feel he is the biggest AP carry and having 1000 AP is what makes him good.

About the lack of health and champs like Kassadin I rarely have a problem with champs like that because I am never the rush into combat and combo a person kind of player. I play Veigar very passively and take advantage of the enemy team's mistakes. Veigar is a hard counter to bad positioning.

Just for reference, my build is Sorc Boots/Deathfire/Rod/Zhonyas.

After laning phase, even if you farm up to 100 AP, you wont kill a squishy in a full combo. You shouldn't think of DFG as a tank-killer, but an extra nuke. It also has CDR which helps his stuns because if your stun is down and they reach you, you're dead (unless you have Zhonyas or something).

Mejai's is overrated on Veigar. Sure, it's a snowball item and it's good, but it's really unnecessary. If you play a good Veig, late game you will always have tons of AP. Mejai's isn't as good early on where Veig needs it, DFG is. My build has generally around the amount of money you get per game, and all items are necessary (Except maybe Catalyst into Rod, but I do that last). You're strengthening his strengths, but you gotta bring his weaknesses up to par too.

The way I play Veigar is stay with the team, I don't throw out my abilities too much (except a Baleful when guys get close but not close enough to fully comb), and once they get close or I position myself to pick one of, I combo boom. But in team fights in the thick of it, if a Kassadin jumps on you and silences you, there's not **** you can do. And if you have no health items, you're dead.

xerospecter 11-12-2010 01:58 PM

Still haven't seen anyone use my Veigar build... not sure if that is good or bad, I murder with it.

Tear
Catalyst
Shoes
Mejai
Catalyst > RoA
Shoes > Sorc Boots/Merc Treads (depending on enemy CC)
Tear > Archangels
Zhonya's
Lich Bane

To Zhonya's it is 11785, but I practically always get there. Even with low stacks Zhonya will put me in the 700-800 range, with high stacks 800-900.

To Lich Bane it is 15255, but I wind up getting there about 1 in 8-10 games. That usually pushes me into the 900-1000+ realm.

Why not Rylai or DFG? I already have a stun and I get health from RoA, so no need for Rylai's. I don't like DFG for two reasons: 1. It doesn't fit the AP snowball emphasis of my build/as an anti-caster/carry I already do enough damage without it. 2. I am lazy and throwing another cast into my rotation would muck up the works.

Obviously people should use the build that fits their play style. This build fits my style beautifully and still doesn't obscene amounts of damage. I ended a game last night with all of my items and 1200+ AP. One player I could kill with a single Primordial Burst, the others I could 2-shot.

Johnald1 01-04-2011 02:13 AM

Now with the new patch out, would you suggest the new ionian cooldown red. boots over sorc boots? And which of the zhonyas items would you take? I'm thinking you'd go more forthe deathcap but I could be wrong.


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