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-   -   How to tell whether or not a champion is viable for tank role (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3168999)

RedHaro 02-26-2013 12:19 PM

How to tell whether or not a champion is viable for tank role
 
Quick, a Xin Xhao just jumped out of the bush and is attacking your ADC... What do you do?

If you have any solution to save your adc, then yes your champion is a viable tank.
(Champions such as Garen and Mordekaiser are not a tank cause they can't do **** against the xin xhao that is on top of the ADC)

Great Pyrenees 02-26-2013 12:59 PM

In that case my Heimerdinger is a good tank P. 1 stun grenade saves my adc, calmly place 2 turrets hit R QQ rockts ... no more Xin.

RedHaro 02-26-2013 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Pyrenees (Hozzászólás 35067727)
In that case my Heimerdinger is a good tank P. 1 stun grenade saves my adc, calmly place 2 turrets hit R QQ rockts ... no more Xin.

Heimer is a "Viable" tank, however, theres other tanks that are better, or provide more utility

M3GaL0d0n 02-27-2013 04:50 AM

I don't know why you people cannot wrap your minds around the concept that tanks don't really exist in League of Legends. You have a peeler which is a very generalized role because virtually anyone in the game with a disable can do it. Tanks in League of Legends are reliable initiators, that is the sole defining characteristic, they can safely dive into the enemy team and start putting out damage and disables. Whether or not a tank can peel is completely irrelevant, you just need someone on the team to do it.

Cenerae 02-27-2013 05:41 AM

Tanks don't exist in this game. This is not WoW where champs like Rammus would be able to garuntee the enemy team focus fires him all the time. This is a game where what your champ can do determines their role. Anyone that's getting hit is tanking damage, after all. The closest thing to a 'true' tank you'll have is a bruiser that's diving the enemy carry - since the enemy team should be trying to get you off them.

So you have your initiators (like Xin or Amumu), then you have your defenders (like Shen and Cho'gath). Ones that tend to dive into the enemy team versus ones who are better off hanging back and helping their squishies.

If you want to peel a Xin off your carry, the answer is Lulu by the way.

SeCKS Egai 02-27-2013 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cenerae (Hozzászólás 35089638)
Tanks don't exist in this game. This is not WoW where champs like Rammus would be able to garuntee the enemy team focus fires him all the time. This is a game where what your champ can do determines their role. Anyone that's getting hit is tanking damage, after all. The closest thing to a 'true' tank you'll have is a bruiser that's diving the enemy carry - since the enemy team should be trying to get you off them.

So you have your initiators (like Xin or Amumu), then you have your defenders (like Shen and Cho'gath). Ones that tend to dive into the enemy team versus ones who are better off hanging back and helping their squishies.

If you want to peel a Xin off your carry, the answer is Lulu by the way.

I wouldn't say tanks don't exist so much as the word tank doesn't apply in the sense most people perceive it.

Considering the hit survivability took, tanks no long really exist. Building pure survival doesn't amount to much when it hardly buys any additional survival time.

Cenerae 02-27-2013 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xSeCKSx (Hozzászólás 35100195)
I wouldn't say tanks don't exist so much as the word tank doesn't apply in the sense most people perceive it.

Considering the hit survivability took, tanks no long really exist. Building pure survival doesn't amount to much when it hardly buys any additional survival time.

If tanks existed, then anyone who built a lot of defensive items would be a tank. What you actually end up with is a damage sponge - nobody on the enemy team would be obliged to attack it.

If anything, the closest thing to a tank you have are your AD and AP carries, plus your anti-carry champions. Because they're the ones the enemy team is going to try and take out first most of the time. None of those champs are great in a pure damage absorbing sense because they have to build some damage to be dangerous enough to attract that focus fire.

I mean, if you wanted to claim that being a damage sponge made you a great tank, then Mundo, Mordekaiser and Garen would all be fantastic. But anyone who knows the game well enough knows that those three champs make useless tanks, because they aren't a threat when built like that. It's what you can do that will determine how likely you are to be attacked by the enemy team.

missou 02-27-2013 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cenerae (Hozzászólás 35104300)
If tanks existed, then anyone who built a lot of defensive items would be a tank. What you actually end up with is a damage sponge - nobody on the enemy team would be obliged to attack it.

If anything, the closest thing to a tank you have are your AD and AP carries, plus your anti-carry champions. Because they're the ones the enemy team is going to try and take out first most of the time. None of those champs are great in a pure damage absorbing sense because they have to build some damage to be dangerous enough to attract that focus fire.

I mean, if you wanted to claim that being a damage sponge made you a great tank, then Mundo, Mordekaiser and Garen would all be fantastic. But anyone who knows the game well enough knows that those three champs make useless tanks, because they aren't a threat when built like that. It's what you can do that will determine how likely you are to be attacked by the enemy team.

I would disagree with Garen not being a threat when built as a tank. If I were an ADC, and a Warmog's+Sunfire Cape Garen flashed onto me, I'd be scared shtless.

Cenerae 02-27-2013 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missou (Hozzászólás 35107908)
I would disagree with Garen not being a threat when built as a tank. If I were an ADC, and a Warmog's+Sunfire Cape Garen flashed onto me, I'd be scared shtless.

So would I, momentarily. Then I'd realise I can lifesteal through his E and take little damage.

A pure tank Garen is only useful if focus fired, outside of using his ultimate.

Etherimp 02-27-2013 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cenerae (Hozzászólás 35104300)
If tanks existed, then anyone who built a lot of defensive items would be a tank. What you actually end up with is a damage sponge - nobody on the enemy team would be obliged to attack it.

If anything, the closest thing to a tank you have are your AD and AP carries, plus your anti-carry champions. Because they're the ones the enemy team is going to try and take out first most of the time. None of those champs are great in a pure damage absorbing sense because they have to build some damage to be dangerous enough to attract that focus fire.

I mean, if you wanted to claim that being a damage sponge made you a great tank, then Mundo, Mordekaiser and Garen would all be fantastic. But anyone who knows the game well enough knows that those three champs make useless tanks, because they aren't a threat when built like that. It's what you can do that will determine how likely you are to be attacked by the enemy team.


Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. To see if your argument holds any validity, try saying this instead:

"If dps existed, then anyone who built a lot of offensive items would be a carry."

Untrue, because "carries" are defined by their abilities, their passive, their base stats, and their attack range.. NOT by what you build on them. Of course, if you do not build them with damage items they do not become carries.. they just become useless.

Just like if you build a tank with purely offensive items, you get a useless champion.

Rammus, for example..

Range -> Melee
Base Stats -> High defensive stats low offense stats
Passive - Armor -> Damage. This encourages you to build defensive items to increase your damage ouput.
Q -> Movement speed, knockback, a small amount of damage.
W -> Defensive steroid to Armor/MR
E -> Long duration CC.
R -> AOE damage/support ability for destroying structures.

Clearly, Rammus is a TANK.


Compare Rammus to Sivir


Sivir

Range -> 550
Base Stats -> Low Defense, High offense
Passive -> Gains Movespeed when AA's an enemy
Q -> Ranged AOE Boomerage with AD scaling
W -> AA Reset and AOE AA damage.
E -> Defensive Shield/Mana sustain
R -> AOE ASpd and MoveSpd steroid.


Clearly, Sivir is a carry.

My point is... What you build on a champion does not define their "role". If you build a champion improperly, you simply ruin the role they are supposed to fulfill.

Garen is a tanky DPS. He is Melee, has high defensive stats, and he has 3 damage abilities and 1 defensive ability. If you build him with a mixture of Defense and Damage (Which is pretty standard), then you get an effective champion. If you build him too squishy, he melts when he gets in melee range.. If you build him too tanky, he can't put out damage to be a threat.

Rammus however does not have this problem.. Rammus doesn't NEED to do damage. He has a 3 second taunt, a knockup, and a massive defensive boost. His job is to initiate, disrupt, and peel, while his team kills enemies. You CANNOT ignore a Rammus like you can an improperly built Garen.


This is not to mention the fact that MOST Tanky DPS have high Base Damage but horrible AD/AP Scaling, where as carries have low base damage on their abilities but they scale very well with offensive items. Tanks and supports generally do not scale very well with damage, or do not have the offensive abilities to make an offensive build viable.


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