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-   -   Mage-Tank Champion? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3100278)

Rynmaru 02-08-2013 12:59 AM

Mage-Tank Champion?
 
So I looked around a little bit, and sure there are specs of already existing champions that would allow a Mage to tank a little more damage than average, but why is there not a single Mage champion that actually was designed to take damage?

Obviously being a Mage class, they would not have a lot of health, so the concept would be that they would tank with a shield that worked similar to Morgana's (E) ability, and the like, but it would be more permanent.

The abilities below would be my idea for a mage tank. All Critism is welcome, and any other idea's as well :) Also, I don't have EVERY detail laid out yet, like name, or appearance, so please bear with me.


Abilities:


Passive: Every time Champion's shield takes damage, it is charged with magic energy that can be released with it's Ultimate.

(Q): Champion surrounds itself with a shield that is sustained until it is out of mana.

1-5 points: When hit, the shield reduces the Champions Mana by the amount of damage dealt to it( - skill level x ability power%)

(W): The champion causes a rift around itself that draws all nearby champions in, and stuns them for X seconds.

1-5 Points: increases the duration of the stun by 0.3(Multiplied by point vallue) seconds.

(E): The Champion channels it's energy, converting Health into mana. If the Champion is hit during this conversion, it it stunned for X amount of time.

1-5 Points: The conversion of Health to Mana is 1 Health, to 1(+Skill level) mana. Also, the stun that ensues should the champion be hit is 0.2(Multiplied by the skill level, in reverse order 5-1, so the higher the skill level the less stun duration)

(R): The Champion shatters it's Shield sending out a wave of Magical damage to all surrounding Champions and minions. The Damage is calculated by a % of damage that the shield sustains, and is calculate along with skill level and ability power.

1-3 Points: The maximum amount of damage that the shield can absorb to convert is 20xskill level of maximum mana(+ability power%)

DryRun 02-08-2013 02:12 AM

Hey fun idea,
I like the passive idea,
Q is very passive ability, would have to scale maybe so ap would reduce the amount of missing mana, so you have to balance ap with mana, could also give a small active
W cc of course
E would need a lot of balance to both be useful and not op in some cases
R -great
all said and done, you have a good idea, but with no real purpose, with those passive abilities you do far less damage then a normal ap mage, and granted you can take damage, but there is no reason for the other team to want to kill you so you would just be ignored till the end of a fight then killed. abilities that all seem to work together have a funny way of not coming together to complete a champion roll. an ap tank with low damage and low cc no initiation would have a hard time tanking.

here is my idea of a tanky ap mage who uses AP to absorb damage but is also (hopefully) viable in a team comp.

Ajax, the Arcane Warrior

The Red Goat 02-08-2013 03:49 AM

This is actually really cool. I have also been wanting to make a tank mage but I never put anything together on the forums. You should keep expanding on this to make it work.

Passive: Very good idea for a mage tank but what does the shield do? does it absorb damage or give a passive bonus for a certain duration?

Q: While it would be a good ability, doesn't your passive already cover this? Also, most champions (actually almost all of them) have a damaging first ability. You will probably want to choose between a "Q" that gives a shield or the passive doing so.

W: Without knowing the stats, and assuming you are making a melee champion, this is perfect.

E: This is kinda cool because you could use your abilities without having to be a mana based tank, but the stun is pointless unless you also get some kind of stat bonus for using the ability, or something for using the ability for x amount of time.

R: This is actually better than you might suspect. To me it looks like you mixed Taric's shield with Nunu's ultimate, and they both work great when used right. However, until I know how much the damage is, I should think you also gain a passive buff to counteract the loss of your shield. But it is still a great concept. Simple, yet powerful.

All in all this is pretty good. You have less mage like character than I would think but I should also get a second opinion on this. What "DryRun" has going is good as well for the mage/tank style, but you might want to focus your abilities more than him/her (I don't know myself). But again, get multiple opinions. The more you critique, the better it will get.

Rynmaru 02-09-2013 12:00 AM

Thank you both for your feed back, and I will have to take it all into consideration.

Dry, I love Ajax, and I love how you took the time to come up with all the stats, all the equations, and balance everything out to the best you can :D

Goat, I appreciate the feedback as well, and would just like to say that the passive ability itself is not a shield, the (Q) ability would be the active shield that can be turned on/off, and the Passive is simply there to charge the Ulti, It is something I have to work on though.

BloodyDiarreah 02-09-2013 08:20 PM

Well, there are some mage fighters in the game. Diana and Gragas are examples of mages who can be built as off tanks and still dish out quite a lot of damage. There are others who aren't supposed to be built as AP off tanks but can. Champions such as Volibear, Sejuani, Singed, Rammus, Shen, and Taric are champions who can be built to go AP and still soak a lot of damage.

However. these champions' skills scale off AP and they are also tanks. So nearly every tank is basically a mage tank, but since they are supposed to be built as a tank, you sacrifice their potential magic damage for survivability.

Kronikmagii 02-09-2013 08:51 PM

I like your idea, but you need more than your Ult to deal damage, or you will never level up to get your Ult :P

perhaps make your Q a more attack based skill, moving the shield to your W, Move your current W to E and ditch the current E.

My reasoning, your current W is more of an escape tactic i think, which is usually your E.
you Q needs to be your main damage output, you currently have no damage besides your basic attack and your ult. The shield is a good idea, just make it your W, that's usually for Buffs/Debuffs.

And i say to ditch the E because you say its a tank but you are converting your hp into mana, it should be the other way i think, or just get rid of it, it is an unnecessary skill that could be replaced with better things for your character.

Other than that i like the idea, just needs more info, like the Stats, Appearance, Lore, Etc.

If you want to give my idea a critique it would be appreciated.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=3106690

Z The Slayer 02-09-2013 09:36 PM

Unfortunately, mage tanks are limited to Leona and Morgana.

See, the problem with making a mage tank is that mages are reliant on their abilities. Without them, they're nothing more than a minion with a lot of life. Tanks are designed to soak up as much damage, and (hopefully) stuns and crowd control abilities as they can. Silence a tank, and he just laughs in your face. Silence most mages, and they're crippled. The reason Morgana can be considered a mage tank is because her shield actually blocks spell effects (AKA crowd control, making her abilities not AS effected when she tanks), she has tons of CC, and her pool can provide life and improve the damage of allies.

Leona is not much more different, but because she has no spell blocker, she has to rely on a high health pool to stay alive, in combination with precasting of her shield.

So to be an effective mage tank, you have to have a reason to be focused (CC or increasing enemy damage, which could be in the form of a support ability or a group stun) and a form of survivability without being crippled by CC.

It seems like your champion has a ton of shields and one stun that should really be an ultimate. Nothing is really forcing enemies to attack you, so what's the point of all of that survivability? You can regenerate mana by sacrificing life, but you have no use for mana, since you have no harassment or healing. Sacrificing your own life as a tank isn't a great idea, unless you recieved a buff for how low your life (or high your mana) is.

My suggestion? You need more of a reason to be targeted, as well as a prevention from being stunned. How about changing your passive to give you a free spell block? Like...every 12 seconds you can block one spell for free; spell casts from anyone nearby reduces the timer by one second.
Or...An aura that taunts enemies to attack you if you're near them for more than 4 seconds?
You can pull enemies in, but you have no gap closer; no way to actually utilize it without flash. Enemies will just run from you. Focus on what makes the current mage tanks work (Diana, Morgana), and use them as a primary example to make a mage specifically for tanking.

Z The Slayer 02-10-2013 03:38 AM

Oh, and VERY VERY IMPORTANT:

NEVER-EVER make your passive reliant on one of your spells. Sure, it might work well with your abilities, and your abilities might be reliant on your passive, but NEVER the other way around. Look at Twitch. everything he does, from increased attack speed, to his nuke, to his slow all revolve around his passive, but his passive does not specifically require anything from his abilities. Otherwise, players will be forced to pick that specific spell or ability just to get their champion up to par.

Draven is about as close as it gets to a "spell specific" passive, and he can still proc it with a critical hit without his Q.


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