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-   -   The Difference Between Beginner and Intermediate. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3085672)

JonnyTapas 02-04-2013 12:24 PM

The Difference Between Beginner and Intermediate.
A lot of players seem to play intermediate before they are prepared. Hopefully this helps a bit.

Beginner: This is as easy as it gets. If you die you are likely playing your first 10 games, playing greedy and farming champs instead of creeps, or still in the very basic learning phase and still getting caught in the middle of nowhere with no friends in sight!

They will lane until the first turret drops, then there's an immediate lane swap "semi-gank" not really a gank when you know it's coming. By then the game is so far snoballed it's a champ farm fest to a quick win.

That is just fine! It's beginner mode... No one wants to loose their first 10 games!

Intermediate: Now here's where teams end up loosing to what should be a stress free bot game for novice players. What changes?

That laning phase doesn't seem much different other than what effect it has on the late game. If someone dies a few times in a beginner game and feeds the enemy, it's hardly noticeable. In intermediate games, the champs will snowball way harder and make you pay dearly for those greedy early tower dive deaths. You can't just walk up and out right kill them like you did the beginner bots. Most intermediate games are lost in the first 10 minutes!

Lesson number 1 summoner. Don't feed early! Farm, and farm safely and take kills when they present themselves. Don't go chasing after them!

Intermediate bots will catch you out of place. After the laning phase you should stay with your friends. Where in beginner mode you could probably 1 v 5 the team with a little bit of skill, it's not likely that you can 1 v. 5 or even 1 v 3 the intermediate bots. Their team fight skill is way more advanced than beginner bots... You did well if you won a 1 v 2... Now get out and spend your gold before the rest of the enemy shows up and cleans you up.

Lesson number 2 summoner. Positioning and map awareness is actually important! You can't just free farm the map like you did in beginner mode.

Team Fighting: As mentioned above these bots have the basic team fight strats in place and will exercise them all of the time. Please ignore Leona and take out MF... she's the one mowing down your HP bar. I know Leona is in your face, but she's not hurting you that bad... Your HP bar is dropping because MF is behind her blasting away! Goal number 1 for any team engaging in a team fight is to kill the squishy DPS champs. Kill the AD carry, then work on the AP Mid or Support. By then those tanky top laners are running away you can clean up or take the 3 for 0. Both are wins!

What I see more often than not.... Everyone jumps on Leeona because she's in our face, it takes 8 seconds to bring her down. 3 friendlies got dominated by MF's bullet time, and the last 2 survivors have low HP and are fleeing from a 4 v 2 who know how to CC and clean up.

Lesson 3 Summoner. Learn basic teamfight strats, try to ignore the tunnel vision and execute the proper strats.

The last thing is Champ Knowledge: You gona start seeing Blitzcrank and Swain just to name a couple. These are 2 champs that will dominate you if you don't have a basic idea of how they work. Even if you don't own a champ you can look at their abilities and their Pro's and Con's without ever leaving the interface. If you find yourself struggling in a game against a specific champ, do a little research before you enter the next game. You don't have to own a champ to learn a little about them.

Lesson 4 Summoner. Know thy enemy!

I hope this guide helps prepare some of you for the next level of Co-Op v. AI. If you're anything like me you PvP when you're ready to test your best skills, and you Co-Op v. AI to practice champs, try builds and work on your basic mechanics. It's so much funner while winning, and the bots are never sore loosers.

Zisi 02-04-2013 01:23 PM

Here's better advice: Don't play bot games if you ever hope to be decent at the game.

Assuming you do want to improve there are only a few reasons why you should ever start a bot game:
1. You don't have time to play for real and you want your win of the day
2. You want to learn the basic mechanics of a champ you have no familiarity with before trying him in a normal game (1 or 2 games needed for this max)
3. There's some specific thing you want to test, (video settings, keybindngs, whatever)


Do not get the mindset of "ill play bots until I can dominate them, and then play pvp". Bot's are dumb, and they teach you to play incorrectly. Playing bots makes you worse, not better. The longer you put off playing pvp the farther you are behind those who you will start playing against when you do.

I have actually seen cases where people leveled to 30 on bot games (you can tell because number of wins is tracked separately for bot games and normals), and then start playing pvp, they are pretty universally horrible.

Torenthal 02-04-2013 02:21 PM

Nice Guide, as the person said above, I believe that you improve playing bot games. It allows you to practice killing minions, ganking, and skill shots. I use co-op vs AI when testing out a new champion.

Although if you really want to get good at PvP, you need to start playing it once you get your basics down and get ready to own. You'll lose and win some, but bot games will help you do better in your first PvP games.

Zisi 02-04-2013 03:46 PM

I do agree that you should play one or two bot games with any new champion you wish to play in a normal game first to get the feel down.

I'm mainly saying that if you think your going to be better prepared to fight humans by playing bot games, your wrong. The match making system primarily scales off your level, so if your level 10 by the time you start playing pvp matches, you WILL get matched with people who are lvl 10 that have been playing nothing but pvp since they started.

Same with lvl 30, if you play nothing but bot games until 30, don't think you wont get matched with lvl 30's that have 180 wins under their belt. Because you will. It's best to start pvp right away.

TehomCD 02-04-2013 03:56 PM

The matchmaker takes level into account, but Elo is a much bigger swing. It now takes number of wins into account as a way to address the edge case of people transitioning into normals from bot games.

There's nothing wrong with using bot games to practice provided you use it mostly for mechanical practice - to practice last hitting, ability use, etc. You can't really use it to practice teamfighting or positioning or builds, or what objectives to prioritize. Bot games will teach bad habits, but only if you let it, in much the same way as normal games teach bad habits compared to ranked, or someone who's only bronze having bad habits compared to someone who's silver. You learn things which are effective behaviors against what you're playing against, but better opposition can take advantage of it.

For example, someone who's Bronze V may win their lane by going exhaust/ignite every game, because they're spoiled from dealing with incompetent junglers who won't punish them for having no escape. Someone may win their lane often by harassing and going for kills, but be terrible at last hitting and always wind up underfarmed in any game against a passive/defensive lane who won't fight them, or against a jungler who camps them and punishes them for being overly aggressive. All of this stuff has nothing to do with bots versus people - it's about not training yourself into routines that are only effective against what you're currently playing against.

JonnyTapas 02-04-2013 09:59 PM

I agree with almost all of what is said above...

Why AI:

-Want a more relaxing, time killing game than PvP.

-Practice in general mouse skills, last hitting, skill shots etc...

-Try out a new champ... I know every week I take all 10 of the free champs thru AI just to see what I like and if I don't like them just to have an understanding of how I might face off against them.

It's said above that bots won't teach you to teamfight or positioning... I'm not going to compare bots (Intermediate Bots) to humans at all, but they will teach you not to be pushing way deep in enemy territory after being seen for a long period of time alone... You will get jumped and you will die!

They will teach you that if the team focuses a tank, the ADC will rip your team apart before you zerg that tank down. You learn to focus the killers.

Bot games aren't completely useless mechanically, however I completely agree that if you want to play PvP competative than you should play PvP!

If you want to enjoy the game passively and low stress... a life of AI for you! Worst case scenerio you gota worry about "KS" spammed in the chat.

Oz SammyD X 02-05-2013 12:24 AM

Bots are as retarded in intermediate as they are in beginner, there's really no difference unless you simply suck at this game(new players don't count).

SneakyAzShiite 02-05-2013 05:16 AM

Good guide from original poster. Ill agree and disagree with some comments. If youre new to the game theres nothing wrong with playing bot games. i play bot games in a 5-1 ratio to pvp matches until i was level 10. Then moved to intermediate bots and i split it 2-2 with pvp until level 20. Its a relaxed learning environment, and its a good way to meet other people to play with in pvp too. And you also dont have to worry about playing smurfs (people who played a lot of league and made a new account to smash new players in pvp). So there really is nothing wrong with it as long as you can realize through mixing pvp with bots the differences. Bots rarely gank from behind. things like that. Everyone has their own way of learning and i think the bots are extremely useful to pick up on how the game works and how champions work. i play bots in a 5-1 ratio now. 5pvp games and 1 bot game. In that bot game ill try out new champions, new item builds etc so im not ruining someone elses pvp experience =)

Seeya guys!

Hrun79 05-05-2013 08:13 PM

But what is the real DIFFERENCE between beginner and intermediate bots. Because surely there must be more difference than in how they team play.

I switch from beginner to intermediate and already in the first levels before items play a real role i run into:

-1v1 fights where i have more health and would have owned the beginner bots easilly end in death for me.

-I try to run away, actually use shadow and they keep up with me. this never ever happened in beginner where i would barely ever even need shadow.

They simply seem to run faster and do more damage.

Knight of Virtue 05-05-2013 08:51 PM

I agree with many here that the best tip is that if you want to get better don't play bots. There is only ever so many things AI can do, and in a game with a lot of complex choices like MOBAs, bots will only ever be 2nd rate. They can be good for trying out new heroes and builds, but if you're early levels then you might as well try stuff in PvP where you'll be playing either other people who are as new to you (minus smurfs). In short, there isn't any benefit by learning to play against bots and it will not effectively prepare you for PvP. I have a friend who got to level 30 by playing bots and finally decided to try PvP, he was promptly crushed game after game after game because he never learned how to play against opponents who could think.

TL;DR Bots can be good for trying out new champions and builds, but only in PvP will you develop the skill to thrive in LoL.

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