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-   -   Being a good support (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3062855)

Rehin1 01-30-2013 10:17 PM

Being a good support
 
A bit of a story here, skip ahead for TLDR

About 10 days ago my friend recruited four of us to the game. He is a level 30, understands the mechanics, and how champions work. When we play together, he always ends up jungeling, simply because the rest of us are still learning lanes. One of my friends immediately took to the middle, and one immediately took to an ADC. This left me in the role of support. Our usual configuration is Top:Pantheon, Jungle:Lee Sin, Mid: Anivia, Bot: Trisitiana, and me as Thresh (Yes I dumped all my points on him).

I didn't have a problem with playing support, in fact I was pretty for it; it just seems like a strange concept to me. I don't know when to kill and not to kill, and I've only just begun learning how to ward, and how to fit wards into my budget. I chose to solo-queue for a game and was sworn at for stealing critter kills (when I had a total of 4), and stealing a kill on a champion (When I had one bar of health, and tried to flay them away just to save myself).

I don't quite understand how I can support them without doing damage, and was hoping to hear from some experienced players about what to do. When I'm with my Tristiana as long as we get the lane pushed, and kill the other guys, everything is okay, but I don't want to learn bad habits.

TLDR: How do I properly support my ADC without overstepping my boundaries as a support.


Also to avoid opening another topic, supporters, who is your favorite support to play?

Ernest P Worrel 01-31-2013 12:48 AM

Welcome to the game my friend, some people are very ornery and protective of the farm that they believe is rightfully for them. You as a player aren't actually obligated to let them have every creep, that is the choice you make as a player to allow your carry to rack up some gold and get better items first. So, 4 in total is minuscule and is nothing; that person in particular was just being a D-bag so forget them.

Stealing kills as a support, that's not really an issue either IMO. If a support does nab a kill here or there then good for them. ADs usually get all the creep farm, which is truly a large sum of gold, kills are just gravy. If your partner is ragging on you for stealing kills then let them be, they wont stop just because you say you're sorry or that you didn't mean it, they just want to be jerks so whatever.

Play the support role that you want to, of course try your best and help your carry as much as you can, screw him if he doesn't appreciate it but don't let it get to you, its just a game, all he can do is complain.

I'm not a huge supporter myself but I like Taric and Zyra, I also like to support with Orianna sometimes.

Rompemann 01-31-2013 12:50 AM

I am by no means a pro support, but it is the role I do the best in. In MMOs, though I liked the offensive mage type, I always did the best with healer-types.

I used to play Soraka mainly, for the powerful heals and pokes, but found she lacks usefulness towards the late game, and most importantly, unless you build Rylais, she doesn't have any CC, which IMO is very important in a support. Now I normally play Taric for his excellent stun and even as a pure support, he has some burst damage, and a weak heal that can atleast help your carry stay in lane a bit longer.

I don't know much about Thresh except that he can control the battlefield with his pulls. But basically, your job as a support, is to help your carry stay alive and get kills. Normally when I play Taric, early game, I find I have to initiate a lot of the time with my stun, following up with my W and AA's, and post-6, my R. The stun plus the burst, and if my carry is with me from an early point in the attack, will often secure the kill for my carry.

Essentially, as a support, included in your starting items should be atleast one sight ward (ideally two) and you want to build GP/10 items (Philosopher's stone) because, as you learned when you got raged at for stealing CS, the support is not supposed to get any creature kills. In fact, you shouldn't even do any damage to them to prevent from screwing up your carry's timing and losing him the last hit. The only time you should kill critters as a support is if you are alone in the lane (your carry is dead or shopping)

Your job is usually not to get the kill, and depending on the support champion, you should generally not initiate the fight. The whole point of a carry is that they are weak in the early game, but if they get gold (which comes from CS and champion kills) they get powerful and towards the late game, will be your team's main source of damage. You give your own life if it means your carry survives, you avoid stealing kills (Although - if you have the slightest doubt as to whether your carry will be able to secure the kill, you make sure your team gets it. I usually end with 1-4 kills when I play Taric.) all so that your carry can stay in lane for as long as possible in order to earn as much gold as possible so they can get the shiny destructive items as quickly as possible.

Naison 01-31-2013 07:53 AM

I actually enjoy support when i play with an adc that i know and am in some type of vent or skype. As far as supporting i only have just under 300 wins so im still pretty noobish but wards wards wards i couldnt tell you how many times wards have save my adc butt! And communication is key

My favorite supports are Taric, leona, lulu, and i also like to play some meta supports like sion (doesnt always work but he is scary with a stun and a shield) alao maokai is a decent support ive only tried him a couple of times but won both times. but add me in game id be more then glad what little knowledge i have on

OhBoyItsaMegaman 01-31-2013 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rehin1 (Hozzászólás 34080575)
I chose to solo-queue for a game and was sworn at for stealing critter kills (when I had a total of 4), and stealing a kill on a champion (When I had one bar of health, and tried to flay them away just to save myself).

I don't quite understand how I can support them without doing damage, and was hoping to hear from some experienced players about what to do. When I'm with my Tristiana as long as we get the lane pushed, and kill the other guys, everything is okay, but I don't want to learn bad habits.

As most people will tell you, getting single digit creep score is fine, and nothing that anyone should be yelling at you for. Likewise, securing a kill is better than letting them get away. The only time you should even think of backing off of a kill is if you're sure that there is no possible escape for them, even if they have flash and barrier up. And even in that case, only a really lame player would whine about KSing.

But when you said that part about getting the lane pushed, it made me think that maybe you were cursed out for attacking minions, not for last hitting them. See, pushing your lane is generally NOT the goal. There are 6 minions per wave (plus a siege minion every few waves). You cannot possibly earn more minion kills by killing them faster. So whether you're blazing through a wave in 2 seconds or clearing very slowly as your own minions do most of the damage, it's the same amount of cs either way. The disadvantages of pushing the lane up to the tower are 1.) some low health minions will be too close to the tower to be last-hit, 2.) your opponents are extremely safe from your harassment, and 3.) you are nowhere near your tower in case you need to run (because of a jungle gank, for example).

So not only should you refrain from last-hitting minions, you should make sure you're not hitting them at all because it causes the lane to push forward, putting you at a disadvantage.

katyyyyyyyyyyy 01-31-2013 10:13 AM

In this day and age. Vision wards>sight stone. Rushing bulwark>phil stone or gold per second items. Gimping yourself if you buy gold per second even on supports now a days, in the past everyone benefited from it. Not any more though, sure they still do, but better options exist if you want to gain an upper hand.

On bot lane: Don't get sight stone if you are on blue side, get vision wards instead. More likely get the sight stone if you are on purple side in addition to vision wards. Due to jungle entrances from enemy jungles being different.

Getting auras is good. Ask your team to buy wards too, the support can only cover one area of the map at a time, and it is alot more effective if everyone is getting a few wards, than just the support.

Always always always always, secure dragons and barons. This is where your vision wards start to get dirtyly good. Securing dragons means free couple of wards for the team, and if everyone used that gold to get a few wards. So much help for the team overall. This is the BEST way to out gold the enemy support is controlling dragons better than them.

With dragons: Don't just wait for perfect opportunity, cause it may never come. You got to create these opportunities and force it and be aggressive. Being real passive when it comes to dragons, alot of times will lead to enemies taking more dragons than your team. You should not take dragons lightly, it's the kind of thing that gives the enemy an edge over you(in remotely close games). The whole way to win is gaining an edge over the opponent.

NEVER ever ever ever, spam wards mindlessly. Always try to make each ward be highly effective at what it will do. Only drop a ward if you know within the next 3 minutes it would serve it's purpose. This is making things matter, and making things matter is what you want. Try to create situations where they would matter, if you can't find a situation where it would matter.

TehomCD 01-31-2013 10:15 AM

Your goal as a support is to try to give the person you're laning with as big a lead in gold and experience as possible. Keeping your lane mate alive is only part of that; what you should be doing is making sure he can last hit without taking damage, and trying to punish the enemy laner when they try to last hit. For example, as Thresh, you have a ranged (although short) autoattack, and whenever someone moves up to last hit, that can be a window of vulnerability where you can autoattack them and they may not be able to respond before you retreat back. Similarly, when your own AD carry is going up to last hit, you should be close enough to attack the enemy if they try to hit him, so they can't get in free harass. You should refrain from autoattacking minions unless you really know what you're doing, since even if you don't kill them you can ruin chances to last hit by knocking them low enough where a turret or minion would kill them when otherwise your AD carry would get them.

The short version of warding is just to put them wherever you're likely to be attacked from. Warding your lane bushes if the enemy laners are going to try to zone you from them is a very standard practice. Warding the river to get advance warning of enemy jungler ganks is also pretty standard, though to know how to do it really efficiently you need to be familiar with enemy jungle routes for the individual champion, so you can predict pretty accurately where he'll be.

Tony bell 01-31-2013 10:30 AM

A basic run down of the many different responsibilites of the support:
all of these responibilities revolve around one basic goal, keeping the adc alive and killing theirs
your tools:
1) warding: good warding saves lives, great warding save lives, and ends your opponents
two phases of warding,
lane phase: you are going to want to get sightstone asap, having two free wards allows you to buy auras for your team for mid game teamfights
that being said, you will want to buy pink wards to get rid of your opponents river wards so your jungler can gank
Roaming phase: at this point you should have ruby sightstone
I typically like to pink both dragon and baron and keep a ward by the enemy wraiths, and 2 in their jungle on either side of blue buff
> this allows you to catch the enemy out of position, or when they are split roaming through their jungle

2) your abilities
different supports excel at different things, sona for instance is good at poking, where as taric is good at protecting his adc through his stun and heal and passive.
as a support your playing style should mirror your adc, for instance, you wouldnt play sona with vayne since vayne likes to play passively and farm in lane. in this respect, it is important to make sure your support synergizes with your carry's playing style
links for good support/adc matchups:
the supports on the top are good to play with an adc, and the ones on the bottom against an adc
http://media.tumblr.com/a60e94549c49...7Um1qzkjqh.jpg

3) My lane is losing badly and we are stuck under tower, what can i do?
at this point you can do two things: first help your adc get those caster minions, auto attack the full health caster minions once so your carry can last hit them after the tower attacks them.
second, pink ward that river, nothing makes tastier pickings that an adc pushing bottom lane without a ward in the river.

all that being said, my personal favorite supports are: Janna, Taric, Nunu, soraka, and alistar

RealMouse 01-31-2013 01:30 PM

being a support has a lot to do with which ADC is chosen and what support you have to go with them. Thresh is a highly aggressive support and needs a few minion kills/champ kills to really shine. as for me, i always build kage's lucky pick and philosophers stone, they can both build into good support items later and the gold adds up pretty fast IF you don't upgrade those items quickly. when you get higher level you can get the gold/10 runes and then you can back off of taking the occasional minion kills as much.

you may add me in-game if you would like
Realmouse

squeek :)

RealMouse 01-31-2013 01:37 PM

oh yeah, personal favorites..um...pretty much all of them :)

squeek


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