League of Legends Community

League of Legends Community (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/index.php)
-   Tribunal Ban Inquiries (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=41)
-   -   What....? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2980409)

An Troll 01-07-2013 04:06 PM

What....?
 
I quit for a few months, came back and played a couple of bot games (in which I'm certain I was not reported) a while ago (last week, I think it was? ), then checked my email today and found an email stating I was "permanently suspeneded", with a link to this reform card http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5912182/#nogo .

For some reason, I'm still able to post on the forums; I have no idea whether or not my in-game account is actually banned, as I recently formatted the hard drive that had my League of Legends installation on and haven't gotten around to reinstalling it yet.

Is this legit? Am I really permanently banned for some months-old games in which I alternately got trolled and backstabbed by teammates, engaged in mutual trollish/competitive banter with enemies, and made off-color jokes?

Exploding Barrel 01-07-2013 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Troll (Hozzászólás 33253640)
I quit for a few months, came back and played a couple of bot games (in which I'm certain I was not reported) a while ago (last week, I think it was? ), then checked my email today and found an email stating I was "permanently suspeneded", with a link to this reform card http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5912182/#nogo .

For some reason, I'm still able to post on the forums; I have no idea whether or not my in-game account is actually banned, as I recently formatted the hard drive that had my League of Legends installation on and haven't gotten around to reinstalling it yet.

Is this legit? Am I really permanently banned for some months-old games in which I alternately got trolled and backstabbed by teammates, engaged in mutual trollish/competitive banter with enemies, and made off-color jokes?

Based on that case number that Tribunal case is about a month old in itself, but sometimes permaban cases get held up at the Riot review step for a while, and maybe the holidays exacerbated that. You say you quit for a "few months," but I see lolking saying "2 months ago" on your games prior to this week. So yeah, it's within the realm of possibility that this is a real permaban with frustrating timing.

Devastator Jones 01-07-2013 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Troll (Hozzászólás 33253640)
Is this legit? Am I really permanently banned for some months-old games in which I alternately got trolled and backstabbed by teammates, engaged in mutual trollish/competitive banter with enemies, and made off-color jokes?

Pretty much. Riot decides on all permabans so they must have decided that you were too toxic to allow to ruin games for others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exploding Barrel (Hozzászólás 33253815)
Based on that case number that Tribunal case is about a month old in itself, but sometimes permaban cases get held up at the Riot review step for a while, and maybe the holidays exacerbated that. You say you quit for a "few months," but I see lolking saying "2 months ago" on your games prior to this week. So yeah, it's within the realm of possibility that this is a real permaban with frustrating timing.

Sounds about right. Permaban cases take longer to be decided because Riot staff personally review them.

Shelzin 01-07-2013 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Troll (Hozzászólás 33253640)
I quit for a few months, came back and played a couple of bot games (in which I'm certain I was not reported) a while ago (last week, I think it was? ), then checked my email today and found an email stating I was "permanently suspeneded", with a link to this reform card http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5912182/#nogo .

For some reason, I'm still able to post on the forums; I have no idea whether or not my in-game account is actually banned, as I recently formatted the hard drive that had my League of Legends installation on and haven't gotten around to reinstalling it yet.

Is this legit? Am I really permanently banned for some months-old games

You aren't... That account is.

An Troll 01-07-2013 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelzin (Hozzászólás 33254091)
You aren't... That account is.

Did I just get....trolled?

Shelzin 01-07-2013 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Troll (Hozzászólás 33254289)
Did I just get....trolled?

No... You did not. I meant exactly what I said.

An Troll 01-07-2013 05:37 PM

No, seriously, did no one actually read the cases?

In the first one, I went 11-3-12. Our team was arguing with each other, and some of us had each other on ignore. Miscommunication ensued, and different parties thought each other were "throwing the game" because of the lack of communication. The entire team was at fault, not me in particular (now that I see the chat that I missed at the time because I had Ahri and Lee on ignore, I realize they actually weren't deliberately throwing the game; it was an issue of miscommunication where I was at as much fault as them).

In the second game, the enemy Fiora and I were taunting each other. I was being deliberately annoying, as I usually do when I'm playing Singed (I want them to focus and chase me, lol), but I was hardly harassing anyone or ruining the game. I should have probably just shut up that game and not said the majority of what I said, but really, does that come anywhere near deserving a permaban? On a related note, the Fiora player that game whispered me later (despite the fact that I never added her to friends, so dunno how she was able to do so) and insulted me further, saying "LOL baddie plays Trynda***** go figure. Get DUNKED!". I screenshotted this and reported it to Riot, but they didn't care. I got a canned response from them, and the match history of the player in question showed that she wasn't even temporarily banned for it...but I was permabanned?

In the third game, I was reported by a troll duo queue, and you can pretty easily see from the chat logs that they lied in their reports (I went afk for 5 minutes? I was d/ced for 2.5 minutes due to a bug splat, as you can see from chat). It was a ranked match where our AD Nidalee, who was soloing top, refused to communicate with her team or participate in team fights. I probably shouldn't have complained about it so much, but it was a ranked match and I was trying to ger her to respond / actually start helping her team. That wasn't my best and brightest game ever; I complained too much in chat, but I was getting trolled pretty hard in a ranked game and doing my best to help my team win anyways.

In my fourth game, the enemy Darius and I were taunting each other, but hardly anything worthy of banning either of us for. It may not be worth much, but I also complimented him on a good play later in the game when he killed me, which goes to show that (at least from my perspective) our banter wasn't really meant to be outright hostile (how many ragers do you see stopping to compliment their enemy for a good play, when that enemy kills them? I wasn't raging; it was just competitive banter and I thought that's how he felt about it too, but apparently I was wrong.)

Last game is me being annoying / funny as Singed again. The guy who reports me even admits that he realizes I was just joking, but that he reported me just in case, because I had the word "troll" in my name. He references my "chat in the ending chatroom", where I apologized after the game for being annoying and explained that I often do that as Singed, to get people to chase me.


I realize my behavior is far from perfect, and sometimes I have a few bad games (especially around the period those reports were from; I was grinding ranked games trying to get the War Hero Janna skin, and getting frustrated as the deadline closed in), but what have I done that warrants a permanent ban? In the time I collected those five reports (and probably a few more that aren't shown in Tribunal..but still), I accumulated five hundred honor "reports" from random people (I rarely queue premade, and when I do, I ask my teammates NOT to honor me, as I don't want to get in trouble for honor trading).

Do you really think that permanently banning someone who got a handful of reports (mostly due to misunderstandings), along with five hundred honor from random people, is going to improve this game's community as a whole? I realize I need to improve, but do you REALLY think I'm a toxic player?

Exploding Barrel 01-07-2013 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Troll (Hozzászólás 33256892)
No, seriously, did no one actually read the cases?

I didn't read the card because it didn't seem necessary to answer the question you actually posted in your OP. I generally don't for permabans, because it means Riot has reviewed the case with far more information than the reform card shows, so it ends up being kind of a fool's errand of speculation.

Zaresin 01-07-2013 05:44 PM

Ok first off do you feel the need to try and vindicate yourself by taking your petty grievances into /all chat and dissing your teammates, the ones you are stuck with the rest of the game, making it a negative environment for not only your team but for the others as well? Grow up.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyte (Hozzászólás 30696571)
Lately, I've been receiving a lot of e-mails about the same questions and complaints about the Tribunal. I'm working with WookieCookie, RiotSeb and statuskwoh to add these to the Tribunal FAQs but we would love to discuss them here first.

1) What's the point of having a language filter if I can get banned for 'adult' language?
a) We aren't out to punish players who use adult language; in fact, very few players are ever banned for saying stuff like "f***, I missed that skill shot" or "damn, f***ing close game!" However, the language filter is not an excuse to verbally abuse someone in the game. When you verbally abuse or harass someone by calling them "f***ing ******" or "n*gger noob", that's when you've crossed the line and will be punished by the Tribunal. I've said this before and I'll say it again, we aren't trying to clean online games of adult language; we're trying to reform or get rid of jerks who like to verbally abuse and harass other players.

2) I only have 1 bad game in my Tribunal Reform Card, why am I banned???
a) The Tribunal verdict is not based on a 'majority' rule; there is also no requirement that all games have to be toxic for it to warrant a suspension. Depending on the case, sometimes 1 game is all that is needed to show that the player deserves a suspension. To Tribunal reviewers, decisions like these are up to you. When you view a Tribunal case, the questions you should ask yourselves are, "Is this player's behavior appropriate in League of Legends?" and "Would I want to play with this player?"

3) This player should have been banned, but he was pardoned. The Tribunal is broken!
a) The Tribunal was inspired by 'crowdsourcing' research. When I was still a student, I worked with labs that developed games such as "Foldit" that took advantage of crowdsourcing to find solutions to extremely tricky tasks--when you read this research you truly appreciate how accurate crowdsourcing systems can be. In fact, the Tribunal is far more accurate than traditional Player Support.

However, the Tribunal isn't perfect. The design is based on statistical probability and random sampling and every system like this has outliers. This means that sometimes, a player has an egregious Tribunal case but is still pardoned because he happened to get a lenient set of voters; however, if the player is truly toxic, he actually is re-sent back to the Tribunal in a handful of games and is usually accurately punished in his second visit to the Tribunal.

Because the Tribunal is designed to identify frequency and consistency of toxic behavior, this is why it doesn't take into account the severity of the offense. If a player is extremely toxic he will quickly get banned multiple times by the Tribunal until he is permabanned; in fact, extremely toxic players end up permabanned significantly faster than players who are 'less severe.' In the future, we may want to brainstorm ways to improve on the Tribunal so that it does take into account severity and adjusts punishments accordingly... but we're not there yet.

4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned???
a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.

5) Low skill players should be banned from the game! The Tribunal should only ban Leavers/AFK and intentional feeders, those are the only types of players that really ruin games!
a) No. Just no. Jerks ruin games. League of Legends is for everyone whether they are 500 Elo or 2500 Elo. It's not a game for jerks.


An Troll 01-07-2013 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaresin (Hozzászólás 33257130)
Ok first off do you feel the need to try and vindicate yourself by taking your petty grievances into /all chat and dissing your teammates, the ones you are stuck with the rest of the game, making it a negative environment for not only your team but for the others as well? Grow up.

I don't consider someone throwing a ranked game to be a "petty grievance", and where did you see me trying to "vindicate myself" in all chat....?.

I called people out for what appeared to be intentional throwing in hopes of getting them to straighten up and try to win the game; it works sometimes. In retrospect, reading over the cases, I realize that it probably didn't help and I should have just not said anything (this is the first time I've had the advantage of that perspective; I've been temporarily banned in the past, but my last ban was 8 months ago, before reform cards came out).

You DO realize that you're being more negative in your post than I was in my games, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exploding Barrel (Hozzászólás 33253815)
Based on that case number that Tribunal case is about a month old in itself, but sometimes permaban cases get held up at the Riot review step for a while, and maybe the holidays exacerbated that. You say you quit for a "few months," but I see lolking saying "2 months ago" on your games prior to this week. So yeah, it's within the realm of possibility that this is a real permaban with frustrating timing.

I just checked the reply I received from Riot when I submitted screenshots of the post-game chat from game 3 (where Nidalee and Draven lied to the enemy team in post-game chat trying to get them to report me), and the date was 10/6/2012, which would be just over three months ago.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:32 PM.


(c) 2008 Riot Games Inc