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-   -   [Champion Concept] Catherine the Demacian Cataphract (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2952101)

Tael Zenith 12-28-2012 10:50 PM

[Champion Concept] Catherine the Demacian Cataphract
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Originally Posted by Wikipedia
A cataphract was a form of armored heavy cavalry utilized in ancient warfare by a number of peoples in Western Eurasia and the Eurasian Steppe.

Cataphract is a type of heavy cavalry from the late classical era/early medieval era; before the rise of full plate mail knights that we know and love. But Cataphract sounds cooler, so there!

Defense Power 80/100
Attack Power 50/100
Ability Power 20/100
Difficulty 30/100

Health : 450 (+90)
Mana : 210 (+40)
Movement Speed : 345
Damage : 58 (+3.1)
Attack Speed : 0.625 (+2.25%)
Armor : 17 (+3.8)
Magic Resist : 30 (+1.25)
Health Regen : 8 (+0.5)
Mana Regen : 5 (+0.4)
Attack Range : 175

Melee, Fighter, Tank, Support

Foreward- Got the idea from the thread "Chronic lack of sowrd and shield characters"
It was mentioned that we wanted more strong ladies; and there is no reason that we couldn't have a BA white knight as a female Demacian, so BAM! I also really liked the idea of another mounted character, so I wanted to go for that and wanted to make her more of a tanky jungler or support; as to not be too similar to Hecarim as the speedy bruiser, though as posted, she is pretty quick.

Lastly, I have concerns with her kit; but I ask for your support in helping me tweek her and make her worthy of Riot! (even if we don't get to see her in the future; quality is paramount)

Appearence: shining white stallion and a beautiful but rough brown haired, green eyed woman. She would be in full plate with a kite shield and a hand and a half longsword, of course heavy barding on the horse as well. Finish it all off with nice stylistic Demacian regalia. Maybe a banner attached to the back of the horse too, maybe.

Movement: Horses trot and gallop; so that.

Voice: Thirty something woman preferred, with a metallic ring to the voice from her helm. Obviously on selection she would say "The cavalry has arrived!"

(Passive) Heavy Cavalry: Catherine ignores unit collision and deals physical damage (40% of armor value) to units she moves through. Can not effect the same unit until 1.5 seconds have passed.

(Q) Castigate: Taunts target enemy champion, forcing them to attack Catherine for a short time (1.5 seconds). Also applies a debuff that reduces their damage by a %(5/10/15/20/25) for a few seconds (1.5/2/2.5/3/3.5 seconds). Cost 70/85/100/115/130. Cooldown 12. Range 450.

(W) Hold The Line: Heals (70/120/170/220/270 +.6/AP) and restores Mana (60/85/110/135/160 +0.0/AP) to target allied champion over the course of 5 seconds. Cost: 80/100/120/140/160. Cooldown 20. Range 700.

(E) Cavalry Charge (Passive): Move speed (8/12/16/20/24%) and armor buff (6/12/18/22/26). (Active): Catherine charges forward in a line(skillshot), dealing physical damage (75/125/175/225/275 +.5/AD) and slowing (10/15/20/25/30%) all enemies hit for 3 seconds. While on cooldown, the armor bonus is doubled, but she receives no movement speed buff. Cost 14/13/12/11/10. Range 700.

(R) For Death and Glory: Catherine gains an aura that grants bonus attack damage to herself (+50/75/100) and bonus attack damage(20/40/60), armor(15/25/35) and magic resist(8/16/24) to her allies for a few seconds (6/8/10). Cost 100. Cooldown 60. Diameter of Aura: 800

Like I have said before, I can work on precise numbers if the forums will it, but I'm more concerned with what you all think about the concept and tenetive balance of her kit and first impressions at this time.
So, have at it!

Thanks for taking the time.

Change Log:
Edit1: Passive reduced from 75% armor value to 25% armor value. (Thanks Rollerball!) Gave her bonus attack damage that affects her on her ultimate.

Edit2: Removed Leadership (Q)[Close range AoE that significantly slows enemy movement, and boosts allied attack speed for a few seconds.] Replaced with Castigate, I felt that she needed an ability that did some damage O.o.
Removed the second name 'Rally' from Forced March- Unnecessary.

Edit3: Second try on making her Kit work! (Thanks Zarkof, Kaakshe and Dzanio!)
Regen from Hold The Line reduced to over 5 seconds, now only targets a single allied champion instead of allied champion and herself.
Passive Renamed Heavy Cavalry, % armor as damage increased from 25% to 40%
Forced March changed from Move speed boost increasing per rank. (Active): Half effect and affects allies within a short distance for a few seconds. Loses the passive movement boost while it is on cooldown. To the current version, Cavalry Charge.
Castigate changed from Close range AoE that deals magic damage and significantly slows enemy movement for a few seconds. To its current form.
Added a little quip about Cataphracts from Wikipedia and myself at the intro, so everyone understands what a Cataphract is.

Edit4: Cataphract Picture from Wikipedia!
Edit5: Added base stats and preliminary ability numbers. Have at it, once more!
Edit6: Lowered base health; seemed too high.

Rollerball 12-29-2012 01:33 AM

Catherine as in catherine ironfist, spot on. Id prefer a more bruisery than support character in her though. W is excellent design, love it, I also like the passive, but I think its OP.

Tael Zenith 12-29-2012 09:41 AM


Originally Posted by Rollerball (Hozzászólás 32948209)
Catherine as in catherine ironfist, spot on. Id prefer a more bruisery than support character in her though. W is excellent design, love it, I also like the passive, but I think its OP.

Holy g-d, you are very right!

I did some number crafting based on Alistar's passive, Trample, which deals 6 + (1 × level) + (+0.1 per ability power) magic damage per second for 3 seconds. If you built an AP Alistar (late game) with 5 AP items (cause boots) RoA, Zonya's, Void Staff, Seraphs and Deathcap, you can get to 631 AP without runes and masteries. That is 6+18+63 dmg per second, so 261 dmg over 3 seconds.

With a similar full armor build and no masteries, Thornmail, Sunfire, Frozen Heart, Randuins, and Iceborn, plus lets assume Alistar's armor of 14.5 +3.5/lvl. (77 at 18) gives us 442.5 armor. (o.O) Her passive would do 331.875 dmg every 1.5 seconds! That is over 2.5 times as much dmg as an AP Alistar! Not even including armor bonus' you could get from Auras!

Editing now! Also creating a Change Log so everyone can see how she has evolved!.


Gojira Godzilla 12-29-2012 11:04 PM

she sounds like she can become a real threat real fast but she sounds like she'd be fun to play. I can't actually find much wrong with this champion

ll Courage ll 12-30-2012 12:51 AM

Alright, The champion herself sounds hard to defeat, She is a good support but I do not see many people actually being able to kill as her, If fed enough she can be a support to herself and give herself enough power to beat the enemy. I do not like the passive, It is creative and I am not saying to change it.

I myself find her hard to use, She needs more Direct attacks, Like one to just Punch the person (I am just saying, Vi was in my head for a second)...You know what I mean? I think She will be played as a rough Support that everyone will hate, I like her.

Of course I mean no offense when I say that everyone will hate her, I am saying that because she sounds like a support that is hard to kill, Very.

Zarkof 12-30-2012 04:36 PM

One problem you have with the mechanics on your passive is how you determine when to deal damage and what the cooldown is. Keep in mind that the most armor you'll probably ever get in a game from straight up stacking it is ~250 so 25% of that is a little under 63. I'd suggest adding a cooldown on the damage (most other champs have 6 sec cds on their passives) I'd also suggest bumping up the % since the damage will be mitigated.

Q: Alright, pretty basic but it works on a tank. You need to balance the damage and slow properly for this to not be too overpowered, so look at similar spells on current champions. Since this is also her only source of damage, it should be on a low cd, deal moderate damage (for the CD) and not be too powerful of a slow (20-40% depending on duration)

W: Self mana regen is a tough thing to balance, especially if you're playing this champ as a tank support. They took out this similar mana self-restore or ally restore effect from Soraka's Infuse, leaving it with only non-self-cast capabilities. Regen is pretty much the same thing as a heal, so that is left to whether or not you want it as a bursty heal or a more prolonged effect. This will also need a long cooldown.

E: This is pretty much Gangplank's Raise morale, only solely for movement speed. It's pretty weak on its own and you can work in some more mobility to this by adding a dash/gap closer that also increases your allies' movement speeds to keep its support utility. The only thing about having a gap closer on a tank/support is that you need Hard CC to back it up. A slow, while useful, just isn't quite enough and you don't have any hard cc on this champ. Another thing to do would be to add in some synergy with your other spells on the active. Stacking movespeed buffs with a slow is also pretty singular in what you're debuffing (movement)

R: So, Taric's ult without the burst damage. Mini-Aegis for a few seconds is okay, but your design is screaming for something with more damage and hard cc.

You're making her an up-in-your-face type of champ with her passive and Q, but then you give her these really passive skills and not much in the ways of defense. You don't really have much of anything to make her one thing or the other. She's half passive support, 1/4th tank and 1/4th fighter, which makes it overall pretty boring and limited to stacking aura items or pure defense if only to be able to slow. You have little tankiness with which you could take advantage of your passive and Q, and too little damage to make her a good fighter.

Tael Zenith 12-30-2012 09:39 PM

You both, Kaakshe and Zarkof, are confirming what I had thought.

Her first build had her completely without a damaging ability, which I Band-Aided with Castigate but it isn't enough; especially since she has no way other then a small DoT heal help mitigate damage that she will get when attempting to close the distance to actually use Castigate. Melee Poke with minimal survivability? Means that if she was a Support, it'd be a damn passive lane...

So, at this point I am thinking of giving her some sort of ranged poke (or gap closer, ew. I was trying to avoid that) some self armor increase, and a hard CC; thinking a taunt atm, since other hard CCs feel too magical in nature and she is very much pure martial.

I'll think about it for a bit, then post up what I come up with.

Rakaydos 12-31-2012 09:56 AM

My first concern with this character is an identifiable appearance. You describe the character as a female, full place sword and shield character.

From a visual perspective, how is that not just a Leona skin?

Dzanio 12-31-2012 12:32 PM

Passive: Interesting, Zarkof seems to have already done my work for me. I tend to agree with him; I'd bump up the %, add a small base damage value, or lower the cd (You CAN build 600+ armor, for 150+ damage, but why would you unless the enemy team has no APs?). Of the suggestions, I like the base damage best; currently this ability seems like it would be less than wonderful early-mid game. Also, keep in mind that Ali's trample is an AoE centered on him; yours requires that you actually physically pass over someone.

Q: Sounds like voli's majestic roar.

W: Health and mana regen in the same ability is going to be impossible to balance. The cd is going to need to go up, and the duration should be decreased (it won't seem very effective if it takes 10 seconds to see the whole effect). Also, see Zarkof's comments about soraka's infuse.

E: Seems pretty solid. I would have the passive MS boost be flat, increasing per rank up to +30-40, and have the active be like Shurelya's. I disagree w/ Zarkoff's comment that you need a gap closer. You're a tank, so you'll be on or near the front line. Some form of hard cc somewhere (not on this ability) would help though.

R: So basically Taric ult w/ some resistance values thrown in. That will be hard to balance. Are you familiar w/ Taric's old ult? It was sort of like Swain's Ult, except it gave him a **** ton of health regen while it was up, and provided the AoE AD and AP buff. I think for this ability to work (since it does no damage) that you'll need something like this. Short cd, and needs good, but not overpowering buffs. Alternatively you could make it work more like Sivir's current Ult, but then I think the sheer number of buffs becomes hard to balance. Also she won't benefit much from the damage steroids (unless you counter the armor buff and her passive) so it won't really help her draw aggro.

General comment: Tanks need to draw aggro off their squishies; your q will slow them down, but when it's on cd people will just ignore you (unless the w is overpowered). Spammable heals, or stuns tends to be the way that Riot works the Aggro generation. Other possibilities are debuffs/buffs (soraka), or damage (taric/leona/mundo; although they have the cc/sustain method as well).

Dzanio 12-31-2012 12:34 PM


Originally Posted by Rakaydos (Hozzászólás 33016635)
My first concern with this character is an identifiable appearance. You describe the character as a female, full place sword and shield character.

From a visual perspective, how is that not just a Leona skin?

First off she's mounted, secondly there isn't any sun theme. I do agree that something inherently demacian should be incorporated, but all that's coming to me are oversized pauldrons.

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