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-   -   It's Time to Fix J4's Ultimate (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2942213)

Ellzam 12-25-2012 10:01 PM

It's Time to Fix J4's Ultimate
 
Alright, it's time. It's time to finally get around to fixing J4's ultimate.

For those of you that don't know, Jarvan IV's ultimate has a long history of being iffy in both its execution and effect.Beyond the fact that sometimes you'll jump and the terrain never appears, or the terrain instantly disappears without a second R press, or whatever, that's not even the worst part.

The worst aspects of J4's ultimate is in its creation. From what we understand as players, J4's ultimate creates a minion, or at least a number of minions which are textured to be terrain. This is an easy method of creating an area of artificial terrain, as with the second press of "R" J4 can kill these minions and remove the obstacle. However, with this elegant design in execution, J4's ultimate has become lackluster and borderline obscene in how impotent it can be.

Any effect which goes through terrain or minions currently goes through Cataclysm. Those champions that ignore unit collision like Fizz and Hecarim? Walk out like it doesn't exist. Champions with movement effects that go through minions but not through walls, such as Vayne's tumble? Walk right out like it doesn't exist.

Anyone who buys a Phantom Dancer? Walk right out like it doesn't exist.

J4 is also affected by a slew of other effects which are slightly buggy in nature, including his knock-up sometimes not working (in particular if the opponent is using a dash-type movement skill like Quickdraw, Tumble, etc; basically anything that's not a blink like Flash), but those can be for another day.

It is, of course, important in balance to consider weaknesses to skills. For many skills, the weakness is user execution: skillshot ultimates often have an all or nothing reward structure. While not a skillshot, Cataclysm is definitely recognizable as one of the ultimates that can both aid and hinder one's team: indeed, the "I'M HELPING!" Jarvan IV meme exists for a reason. It exists because the creation of Cataclysm must be done intelligently, effectively, and at a time when Jarvan is sure that he can capture an opponent, prevent their escape, and simultaneously not trap or hinder his own team.

The aforementioned weaknesses to Jarvan IV's ultimate make no sense from a balance perspective given how abundant they are, especially when in consideration of today's current metagame and the kit combinations which are common in new releases and high tier champion pools as well as in consideration of its natural weaknesses.

I feel that by restoring the glory of Jarvan's ultimate he can once again become less of a supplementary character whose ultimate can be negated by some 3-5 second cooldowns or a right click and the Prince he was intended to be.

Acanthus 12-26-2012 12:44 AM

I noticed that people with ghost could walk through it before. I came to the same conclusion, but totally didn't even think about Phantom Dancer. That's kind of a kick in the nads when squishies like carries are my intended targets when I'm a bruiser like Jarvan IV. Voted up, plan to bump.

Tacoswamper 12-26-2012 01:00 AM

I agree, Jarvan's ult needs a little love. At least change it to where it's not entirely dependent on unit collision.

SeiYouSiLa 12-26-2012 01:48 AM

this is why I bought Jarvan and don't play him =(

btw if a champion ignores unit collision then the ult won't really block them, consider it as a counter

Acanthus 12-27-2012 01:47 AM

Bump.
Quote:

Originally Posted by SeiYouSiLa (Hozzászólás 32844196)
this is why I bought Jarvan and don't play him =(

btw if a champion ignores unit collision then the ult won't really block them, consider it as a counter

No other champion is countered so hard by a core item used by the very people the ult is designed to target/trap. At least champions like Malzhar being countered by QSS is a niche item.

KitStylus 12-27-2012 05:53 AM

Phantom dancer makes you walk right trough it??? WTF!

Afael 12-27-2012 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetseriel (Hozzászólás 32880547)
Phantom dancer makes you walk right trough it??? WTF!

It has a Unique Passive "You ignore unit collision".

His ult certainly needs improvement. The fact that most squishies you target ignore it..

KitStylus 12-27-2012 06:21 AM

Considering Blitscranks non-ultimate grab is a guaranteed kill on low cool down if it lands,
and considering Darius exists, J4 should get an IMPASSABLE terrain, but without doing
extra damage, people can still jump in, casts Zhonya's, flash out etc. to counter it.

SiKkNdTwiSt3D 12-27-2012 09:36 AM

yeah fix jarvans ult that's a pretty buggy exploit.
+1

Micromann 12-27-2012 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellzam (Hozzászólás 32840013)
The worst aspects of J4's ultimate is in its creation. From what we understand as players, J4's ultimate creates a minion, or at least a number of minions which are textured to be terrain. This is an easy method of creating an area of artificial terrain, as with the second press of "R" J4 can kill these minions and remove the obstacle. However, with this elegant design in execution, J4's ultimate has become lackluster and borderline obscene in how impotent it can be.

Where were players told this? I appear to have missed the memo.


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