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-   -   My main issue with Dominion (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2931115)

ViolentlyCar 12-22-2012 04:32 AM

My main issue with Dominion
 
Do you guys remember what it was like to play League of Legends in March/April 2010? If not, here's a refresher. Ezreal was one of the newest champs and his Essence Flux healed all teammates it hit for an amount equal to its damage. This broke the game. The only viable team comp was one that never engaged in any fights, and instead relied entirely on heals and pokes to wear their opponents down. This was probably one of the worst periods of League of Legends history, and no one had any fun (except Ezreal mains, I guess). These days, improved design philosophies notwithstanding, this sort of thing could never happen. Because of the improved protection ranked queues have given players, it is extremely hard for a team to assemble a completely busted composition. Dominion has none of this protection, and Riot is on the record saying that we're not getting it. This makes me fear for Dominion's future. Here's why we need protection and why the current systems are deeply inadequate.

No premade protection
The heal/poke metagame came before ranked play. Because the only way to play was blind pick, and because everyone was in the same queue, it meant that you would often fight full premades that were stacking the OP champs. The game tried to match premade versus premade, but matchmaking wasn't as optimized as it is now and often failed to do so. This created a dynamic where if you wanted to win, you would do premades. Top players would just invite spam until they got five and then would stomp a bunch of pubs. A lot of people disliked this and felt like solo queuing wasn't really viable. The same thing happened to draft Dominion. Draft Dominion used to be active. Sure, it would take 15-20 minutes to get a game, but you would actually get a game, and we had our little community going. As time went on, however, more and more people started to migrate to blind pick because of premades in the queue. Certain top players almost exclusively did five man premades, which usually resulted in a completely one-sided stomp. This wasn't really fun for anyone. It wasn't fun for the people being stomped because they waited 15 minutes in queue to play a non-game, and it wasn't fun for the people in the premade because they waited for an hour in queue to play a yawner of a match. It got so bad that people would friend the premade stompers just so they could avoid queuing while they were in it. That's a really flawed design and it doesn't create good games. This isn't even mentioning the fact that it took like eight months for it to have any queue dodge penalty at all, which made fair matches even more difficult to play.

No balance protection
The other side of "no ranked play" meant that players not only had no way of stopping their opponents from picking the broken champs, but had no way of knowing whether or not they were even picking them. If we had ranked play then, we'd just ban Ezreal, Soraka, Janna, and Nidalee every game and get on with playing. Dominion is the same way. Sure, we have draft pick, but thanks to the aforementioned premade problem, it's dead and buried and it's not coming back until that issue is solved. This means we're stuck with blind pick, where the top champions roam free. I've seen Dominion players straight up ask for Kassadin to be disabled in the mode, but individual imbalances aren't really the problem. There will always be the "best characters" in anything, and the banning phase is designed to help mitigate the impact of these characters. That we don't have this available to us, combined with the fact that the live team doesn't do anything for us outside of one designer means that a lot of games are basically decided at champion select, which is something Zileas has explicitly said they don't want League of Legends to be about.

No protection from apathy
This is tangentially related to premade protection, but it's different enough to be its own section. Draft mode, on top of the actual mechanics it offers, provides another important function: encouraging mindsets. A few days ago, I had a game where our Akali disconnected, but the team kept playing as if we were at full strength. This was obviously a bad idea and we lost all the fights. I asked the team to just try to hold two points and not die so Akali could reconnect, to which our Lee Sin answered "just play. It's just a game." This bugged me a lot. I was in the mood to win. I wasn't in the mood to die uselessly over and over again so we could get five capped. The problem is that because everyone is put in the same queue, people have different priorities. Some people are in tryhard mode and want to win. Some people want to play underpowered champs for kicks. Some people want to play actual Dominion but some jerk playing Zilean forces them to chase him all game (okay, that one doesn't happen as much anymore). I know that by no means does ranked guarantee that people take the game seriously, but it at least suggests you should.

Dominion's legitimacy to outsiders
There is a very strong perception that Dominion is a casual mode with little depth. Whether or not you agree, this perception needs to go away if we ever want to be taken seriously. A lack of ranked mode makes it impossible for people to see who the high level players are and how they play. Within the community, we know our top players, but outside of it, they're total unknowns. I don't know who the top Twisted Treeline players are, but if I ever wanted to know, I have quick access to the ladder page. Dominion has no such system and needs to rely on word of mouth. There is currently no real way for strategy to "trickle down" to lower level players. This lack of "information percolation" (as I believe Nome calls it) combined with a lack of innate guidance (where SR is relatively guided, Dominion is more freeform) can lead newer players to conclude that it's just a wild deathmatch with no strategy. How can we convince them otherwise? Dominate Dominion is a good start, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. Easy access to the information through ranked stats on sites like lolking is not possible when both the good and the high level and low level players are all in the same data pool.

This is why I'm not feeling very confident about Dominion right now. It's cool that there's finally some form of support from Riot, but these issues are all outside the scope of actual game design. Unless Riot takes the initiative to really support us from higher up, I feel like our community isn't going to grow.

WorstAlistarEver 12-22-2012 06:11 AM

sadly it's true. recently i felt a big downside in mathcmaking it seems like a lot less people are queuing for dom. i had a regular record of about 20-30 wins over lost in dom. i had something like 1700-1900 hidden elo. not super good and not the best but enough to have good games with great strategy,great teammates and good opposing teams and everyone was fairplay and enjoyable to play with and against.

Recently i get people afk in my teams,people afking in the middle of the game for 5 minutes because "phone" or "pizza", or they are trying a dom game because they want to see if their connection is ok and guess wath? it's not, they get dc'd all game.I get the typical 10 dom games played xin zhao who ends the game last, 1-16-4 at 18 minutes and tell to everyone that he don't care about this **** mode. The 1300 Ranked SR player comming to try super attackspeed Darius and AP corki feeding all the game and writing in chat "omg this mode is bull**** man" when he's gettig steamrolled.
Etc,Etc,Etc,
Well you know how it is anyway..
these days it seems that matchmaking can put me with Sauron and a lv 5 in the same game at some hours of the day.
it's dying :(

Where did all the nice people and the dedicated dom players go? We need more of us to change this poor mentality that people have when they come to play dom...
i mean we can't even draft pick... this map would be so much better and more balanced with draft pick.. it's sad.

BROSEPHIROTH 12-22-2012 04:01 PM

It's hard to reply to this because VC laid it out so well I don't really have much to add to this. Dominion sorely needs some attention.

Get rid of draft mode, replace it with ranked mode. That solves the problem of "splitting the queues".

Sol Badguy 12-22-2012 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BROSEPHIROTH (Hozzászólás 32738827)
It's hard to reply to this because VC laid it out so well I don't really have much to add to this. Dominion sorely needs some attention.

Get rid of draft mode, replace it with ranked mode. That solves the problem of "splitting the queues".

This

Commando Slap 12-22-2012 05:22 PM

Hi VC c:

upvotes.

naotasan 12-22-2012 05:36 PM

violent car wins the game

HaIfhearted 12-22-2012 05:42 PM

I have absolutely nothing negative or contrary to say to this.
It is very well thought-out and fairly well-written, and makes very valid points.

I'm going to assume Nome will see this at some point or another, although whether he replies or not is a different matter.

kirillian 12-22-2012 05:45 PM

Agreed. The complete disregard for possible consequences in Dominion when they implemented the # of SR wins affects matchmaking along with constant silence from Riot when the community speaks is incredibly deafening. It's quite frustrating to watch really. Just give the Dominion community some love on the home page every once in a while etc. A few weeks ago, the Dominate Dominion tourny got tons of viewers (featured stream IIRC) and we had a huge influx of people wanting to play from what I could tell (I play with friendsquite often who have barely any Dom wins...and we started seeing tons people saying they were new etc.). Maybe more of that would encourage more Dom participation.

ViolentlyCar 12-22-2012 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirillian (Hozzászólás 32741579)
Agreed. The complete disregard for possible consequences in Dominion when they implemented the # of SR wins affects matchmaking along with constant silence from Riot when the community speaks is incredibly deafening. It's quite frustrating to watch really. Just give the Dominion community some love on the home page every once in a while etc. A few weeks ago, the Dominate Dominion tourny got tons of viewers (featured stream IIRC) and we had a huge influx of people wanting to play from what I could tell (I play with friendsquite often who have barely any Dom wins...and we started seeing tons people saying they were new etc.). Maybe more of that would encourage more Dom participation.

It's the little things that bug you, like how Vi doesn't have a recommended item set or how the speed shrine runes weren't remade like the rest of them. It really makes you feel second class.

naotasan 12-23-2012 02:02 AM

Stay alive!


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