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-   -   Blackfire Torch's CDR/AP Alternatives feel too weak (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2900052)

Galgus 12-13-2012 08:04 PM

Blackfire Torch's CDR/AP Alternatives feel too weak
I'm not here to say that Blackfire Torch is overpowered, but I think its alternatives for CDR and AP- Athene's Grail, Hextech Sweeper, and Morellonomicon- are too outshined at the moment.

(Deathfire Grasp is the only alternative that might be viable for a damage-focused mage in my opinion.
It is better suited for burst damage than BFT, creating a play-style decision of burst vs sustained damage.)

Morellonomicon has never been terribly useful other than costing a bit less, and most mages can output enough burst damage that heal countering is a lower priority for them.

Athene's gives tons of mana, and some mages certainly miss a quasi-bottomless mana pool when building Blackfire, but it feels like a choice between "spam between fights" and "do damage", and almost every mage values the latter more than the former.

Hextech Sweeper gives similar stats (aside the magic penetration) and a situationally useful active for about 1000 gold less, but overall it seems inferior to BFT for mages wanting to do damage.

Blackfire feels too much like a required item for most Mages on Dominion because of how much damage is given up by not building it.

The one thing it doesn't give that mages need is mana, which doesn't seem significant enough an advantage to justify itemizing it over the Torch.

I don't really know what should be done about this- maybe the alternatives to the Torch just need a buff, or maybe the Torch is just overounded, but I find it very hard to justify not building Blackfire Torch on every mage that I want CDR on* unless I really want DFG and its burst damage.

*(Also known as all of them.)

Volandum 12-13-2012 08:55 PM

I've been building Morellonomicon for lack of better options since Athene's got nerfed. The passive is useless and should not be considered.

Nome has explained that BFT will be changed to be more expensive and build from Codex, and thus will have mana regen.

Orphane 12-13-2012 09:37 PM

Where the sweeper at

konfetarius 12-13-2012 09:44 PM

The alternatives are largely too weak. Random thought: incorporate the boots enchant system into the crappier-as-far-as-dominion-is-concerned-items to allow buffing them without screwing with other game modes.

For example: Morellonomicon, with a token cost of 100 gold for a choice of enchants for +AP or +CDR stat.

Galgus 12-13-2012 09:52 PM


Originally Posted by Orphane (Hozzászólás 32412977)
Where the sweeper at

True, I forgot that one. I'll add it to the OP.

In my opinion, it is a decent item with useful movement speed and a situationally helpful active, but is mostly inferior to Blackfire Torch for mages who want to do damage.

HaIfhearted 12-13-2012 10:04 PM

Yeah, my problem with Sweeper and the others, like the OP and Konfetarius said, is that Blackfire Torch is just better.

The sheer power of Torch is restricting mage itemization in Dominion, and the upcoming nerfs will NOT fix this.

Galgus 12-13-2012 10:08 PM

The problem may be less about Blackfire's power as a damage item and more that it does everything.

If it just didn't give CDR, it wouldn't be directly competing with the three aforementioned items and we might see more variety.

It would probably have to either be buffed or have a cost reduction were this done, though.

Also, added DFG as one of the alternatives. In my opinion, it might be the only real competitor because it works better for burst mages focusing on burst than BFT.

smXho 12-14-2012 01:22 AM

I don't like Morellonomicon's new passive, because it does not answer to things as well as it did.

For example, i was fighting at bot fighting AP Yi. I pick this up, and i swear, everytime he mediate at 35%, the grevious wound does not land after like 1 tick of his heal because he is over 40% again. I was unlucky to choose a bot without hard cc and our team stomped top (and i held my own at bot) so didn't ask for a lane swap

Galgus 12-14-2012 01:54 AM

@ smXho:

Its off-topic, but Tome might be more fun it it just gave a magic damage boost against targets below 40% health as a finisher item.

Kind of the opposite of Deathfire, which works best enhancing the burst that takes enemies to low health and hits harder the healthier they are.

It would mean AP's wouldn't have a Grevious Wounds item option, but I've never felt a serious need for it as a Mage, especially with Ignite around.

Redenbacher 12-14-2012 04:40 AM

Keep in mind that 'wanting to deal damage' and 'wanting to deal damage with utility' are two very different things.

Yea, if I just want to deal damage, BFT, Wooglet's and DFG is my option. If I want more utility and survivability in my build, there are sacrifices for that. Granted, Wooglet's is a defensive option as well, but it's mostly selfish. Things like Sweeper, Athene's, and Morellonomicon serve a different purpose.

I don't feel you can have both team utility in addition to high raw damage. You have to decide that your team needs Sweeper, and that's a good choice to support the team.

Similarly, if I'm an AD Carry and 'want to deal damage', I build IE, PD, LW. If I want some more utility and AoE damage, there are sacrifices for that.

There's really nothing wrong with having a specific build aimed at a very specific purpose. There's no reason to give more items that do the exact same thing if the best options are already available.

Now, if the best solution was to stack BFT... that would be a problem. Hence the nerf to The Black Cleaver.

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