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-   -   Being Counterpicked (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2895218)

Akimasu 12-12-2012 11:50 AM

Being Counterpicked
 
We all know it happens, what do you do? Especially when you're against a counter outside of draft.

I mid against quite a few Akali's, and I'm trying to learn my mids for when I start playing ranked. I've got most of her counters down, so I don't generally play em..so when I play against her - it's rough.

Most recent game was Cassiopeia vs Akali. Once she hit level 6 I had no chance. Q>R>E>Q>AA>R was generally enough to kill me, still having 1 ulti to get out of tower. She could dive me at 100% and kill me, or at least get me under 50% hp so I either had to back, or she'd kill me next attack. Easily dodging my jungles ganks, and playing super defensive pre-6.

When I fought her after I hit 6(she was 7) she dove me at 80% hp, I ulted her, she still killed me and got away with ~80 hp after ignite.

What should you do in situations like this? (She hit 6 before me thanks to their jungle giving her the entire wolf camp).

and as a more broad question: What do you do when you've been counter picked, Hard.

Retui 12-12-2012 11:58 AM

Well... you can always try to play as safe as possible even if it means that your opponent will get ahead. It's a better alternative then giving them kills if you're losing hard.

Alternatively, if you have a solo lane that's willing to switch and, of course, it's not another counter to you, then you can try laning against another solo. There's a chance that your opponents may do the same as well.

Other than that, the only other thing that could help you is having your jungler be present as much as he can.

I usually try to play as safe as possible myself.

phatmonkey91 12-12-2012 12:22 PM

When getting counter picked there is not much you can do, other than play to a style that will close up on the advantage that the other person has. Most of the time that means play passive, and grab ur gp 5's. Pay attention to how ur opponent is playing and do something to counter act that. If you see something they are unable to do effectively exploit it. That is really all there is to do.

BardicPaladin 12-12-2012 01:15 PM

If you're counterpicked, the best thing to do is hug your tower and farm as safe as you can. Ask for ganks from your jungler, especially when the other lanes aren't in need of it. Call mia every time when the enemy disappears; a roaming Kat is just asking to get fed from ganking top or bot. Alternatively, if your champion is great at pushing and your enemy is not, you can push your lane and then help another lane.

When getting countered, your goal for that game is to not give kills to the enemy, and not to get so behind that you are worthless for the rest of the game. Keep in mind that skill matters. If they overextend and get caught, be sure to punish them for it.

IS134793e5f3c35e84c7d25 12-12-2012 01:15 PM

To be completely honest the only way someone could counter someone is if. there was 10 types of champs, labeled type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,10. each type did double damage to another type and received half the damage from it, and it created a perfect circle. of rock paper scissors but with 10. heck it could be 3, it could be as large as the pool of champions. each champion could have 1 other champion they do double damage to and recieve half the damage from. it would work as long as it is a perfect circle which it don't matter how many champs exist it always can be a perfect circle.

that is the only way for there to be counter play, pokemon had it, but pokemon's was not a perfect circle. some types like bug were weak to alot of things but not strong against alot of things, whilst psychic was not weak to alot of things.

until then any champ won't hard counter another. unless it is like malphite countering AD, but even then blackcleavers counter him.

Fs Son0fSilas 12-12-2012 02:19 PM

In the case of akali you have to beat her and shut her down before 6. The best option in my experiene is make sure you are buying a pink ward on your first back. This way you can continue to damage her with targeted abilities if she tries to stealth harass. Remember to stay out of AA range so she can't proc her Q damage.

When you get back to lane push out HARD and place the pink in an area where she can't see it. At the very least make sure she won't notice it when placed. Harass her as best you can, and then kill her early. If you've pinked you'll also have stronger ganks from the jungle. By 6 you NEED to be ahead, this mean NOT playing passively.

I hate hearing when someone suggests playing passively on champions who aren't supposed to be passive. Would you rather be behind all game, or take the chance to be ahead of someone that has you countered through mid and late game?

Akali is a strong ganker. Post 6 you need to be ganking when she is mia. When she is lane, gank then too. Pretty much post 6 avoid her as much as possible, and the only time you should be engaging her is if you have a team to back you up. Hopefully, if you've set her back during the laning phase you can counter gank her. Follow her when she ganks, this can be easy with proper warding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damein Sandow (Hozzászólás 32362438)
To be completely honest the only way someone could counter someone is if. there was 10 types of champs, labeled type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,10. each type did double damage to another type and received half the damage from it, and it created a perfect circle. of rock paper scissors but with 10. heck it could be 3, it could be as large as the pool of champions. each champion could have 1 other champion they do double damage to and recieve half the damage from. it would work as long as it is a perfect circle which it don't matter how many champs exist it always can be a perfect circle.

that is the only way for there to be counter play, pokemon had it, but pokemon's was not a perfect circle. some types like bug were weak to alot of things but not strong against alot of things, whilst psychic was not weak to alot of things.

until then any champ won't hard counter another. unless it is like malphite countering AD, but even then blackcleavers counter him.

As far as what damien has suggested, everyone is in some way "counterable". Just because A isn't dealing double damage to B doesn't mean they haven't countered a person. Some champions have strong kits that will make life difficult. You're Teemo, and you only have a haste as an escape mechanism. Burst, gap-closers, and CC counter him. You are Akali, Stealth detection, MR, HP, AoE damage and again CC. The list goes on... Champions have weaknesses in their kits, what you need to learn is how to exploit them.

In many situations people suggest passive play, sitting back, and letting your enemy decide how the lane will be played. Sit at your tower and farm, hug the turret (all this does is let the enemy free farm and have complete control of the match). In the end the enemy has free roam to gank any time they like, leaves your team weaker to fight objectives, and makes you afraid to even leave your turret.

Get in the enemies face, but play smart. Bait them as best you can. Play like you are WEAK and lull them into believing you aren't a threat.

The best example in all of this I can give is playing mid as Annie. She is a very balanced and easy to learn champion. She, like many other mages have a hard time against Kass. What do you do? He is going to poke all day with Q and zone you out till 6. All I do? Buy an early null mantle. The early magic resist will give you the chance to trade. He wants to harass? Harass him right back. Any time he goes in, you come in harder. The worst thing you can do is sit idly by and let them farm and deny, while you sit like a scared child at your turret. In the end you need to study up on how to counter the enemy, and how to out play someone should you get countered.

TL;DR play smart, know your enemy, and DON'T play passively

(That's not to say be SUPER SUPER aggressive, just play your game and not your opponents. Don't let the enemy control the lane and you'll be fine.)

IS134793e5f3c35e84c7d25 12-12-2012 06:38 PM

nothing king silas ever said changed my opinion ever in the past and nothing he said here changed my opinion again.

pokemon has true hard counters, this game does not. you got armor? i got armor penetration. you got ad? i got armor. you got armor penetration? i got health. you got health? i got health shred. you got health shred that does magic damage? i got magic resist. you do true damage? i got health.

if a champions abilities slightly match up well against another champion, it is not hard countering. that is just having a slight edge in mechanics, but the underdog can easily out play them. volibear getting poked by a teemo, is just a slight edge in mechanics but teemo is not hard countering him in any way.

just understand what true hard countering is. one person does more and takes less damage from x champion(s), because of type or specific champion.

i said my view and no need for me to check any thread again after i posted in it. nothing any one can say after what i said can change how i feel. you always seem to think you trying to do that works but never has and never will. and no need for me to ever respond to them but you seem to like to, so i thought i would just clear it up for you.

FearOfTheFlesh 12-12-2012 06:48 PM

Try your best and then try to make the difference with ganks from the jungler or in the team fights. Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn't.

Fs Son0fSilas 12-12-2012 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damein Sandow (Hozzászólás 32372743)
nothing king silas ever said changed my opinion ever in the past and nothing he said here changed my opinion again.

pokemon has true hard counters, this game does not. you got armor? i got armor penetration. you got ad? i got armor. you got armor penetration? i got health. you got health? i got health shred. you got health shred that does magic damage? i got magic resist. you do true damage? i got health.

if a champions abilities slightly match up well against another champion, it is not hard countering. that is just having a slight edge in mechanics, but the underdog can easily out play them. volibear getting poked by a teemo, is just a slight edge in mechanics but teemo is not hard countering him in any way.

just understand what true hard countering is. one person does more and takes less damage from x champion(s), because of type or specific champion.

i said my view and no need for me to check any thread again after i posted in it. nothing any one can say after what i said can change how i feel. you always seem to think you trying to do that works but never has and never will. and no need for me to ever respond to them but you seem to like to, so i thought i would just clear it up for you.

I don't think I ever use the word "hard counter", but w/e. In terms of league countering simply means picking a champion who's kit gives you an advantage over an opponent.

What you've said about countering is true though. There are a lot mechanics in place that allow players to counter play with items/masteries/skill.

This is what you need to remember OP. For instance if Akali gives you problems, and you know that she is going to "counter" you by closing gaps post 6, remember she deals magic damage and isn't scary pre 6. There is nothing to say you can't start with a null mantle. Many good items build out of it.


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