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-   -   Building defensive items, is there any point anymore? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2894761)

FelisSilvestris 12-12-2012 08:39 AM

Building defensive items, is there any point anymore?
With the def of MR items, and the incredibly OP armor reduc of AD, is there any real point left in having a balanced item build anymore? Why make that sunfire cape when you can make a black cleaver for example? The only real defensive items worth it in my opinion, are the ones with toggle abilities such as Mercurial scimitar, or hourglass. Has the preseason item patch nerfed the power of defensive stats too much? The nerf to MR stats and the buff to armor pen is a little too much.

Maybe it's just me, but i feel things hit HARD, and building defensive stats barely has a noticeable effect as it used to pre-changes? Thoughts?

Resurgam 12-12-2012 08:59 AM

Hmm - I kinda of see where your coming from. I have noticed that I can eliminate tankier champs easier than before. And that they nerfed MR a little too much, which is one reason i stopped playing kat, and went to ad caster. But all in all if you can outsmart your opponent and with a good enough, that knows how to blast cc - stun and supresses I think you should be just fine.The fact is - your going to lose HP when your attaked, being a tank and not takn much dmg is ok - if ur attaker is a weak adc with no armor pen. But if that adc does have armor pen - well, they should be able to do dmg - of course we would hope not 3 shot you - but at least give considerable amount of dmg.Of course this means that for most adc late game is their time to shine - but overall the game just gets a little harder is all.

GatorHatur 12-12-2012 09:45 AM

I know this has no impact on actual gameplay, but I see what you are talking about particularly when I am playing ARAM... You might as well not have a tank anymore because they get taken down so fast as is... do the new Armor Pen items and MR buffs you spoke of.

67chrome 12-12-2012 10:44 AM

Well, EHP and DPS still stack multiplicativly with each other - which is more or less the reason Bruisers tend to win duels. I'd just say building full tank isn't as useful anymore, though building a mix of survival and defense should still cause most tanks/initiators/fighters to work rather well.

And even with committed builds to armor penetration you still have to contest with health, and with committed builds for %HP shred you have to put up with MR. Also, as far as %HP damage goes - there is still a significant amount of flat damage applying it that health will always be beneficial against. And for MR, the only change that really happened was that Force of Nature was removed, there are still at the very least 3 top-tier items available if you want to build for physical damage, ability power, survival, or supportive.

Also, I'm pretty sure Alistar, Malphite, Amumu, Shen, and Blitzcrank were on top of the ban list for last season. And even with the changes to survivability they still perform rather well. It's also easier to grab AP and Armor, what with Iceborn Gauntlet and Banner of Command being added into the mix.

footfoe 12-12-2012 10:48 AM

because other wise that armor pen and armor reduction would put you at 0 armor or negative armor even.

Armor always counters Attack damage.
Magic resist always counters magic damage.

and yes we agree black cleaver is over powered right now.

DarkenDragon 12-12-2012 11:01 AM

going full tank items on any one is a silly idea to begin with, and comparing the purchase of sunfire cape to black cleaver is just silly the 2 have totally different roles and reasons why you would build them

and also I cant take anyone serious if they're using the wrong terminology, mercurial and hourglass are not toggle abilities, those are active abilities, only muramana is a toggled ability. if your gonna post something at least post the right information

and yes there still is a reason to build armor because if you didnt, your taking either full damage or even more. sure armor pen and reduction is going to lower your effective armor but you'll still have armor.

increasing your damage will be meaningless if you cant apply that damage cuz you die within seconds. this is why I always tell people never to build full glass cannon if you dont have the skills to dodge the enemy attacks.

also every defensive item now has a secondary purpose other than just a defense stat and usually that secondary purpose is the real reason you bought it. like banshee's veil is for the spell shield, sunfire cape is for the aoe damage, warden's mail is to reduce the auto attack speeds, and warmogs is for the health regen. no one buys a defense item just for the defense stat, if you are then your not making your choices more effective

Beaumains 12-12-2012 11:11 PM

That depends on what you mean by "full defense". For a long time now, people have learned to "ignore the tank", and unless you give the enemy a reason to attack you (lookin' at Galio here), they're going to do just that. Now, if you're implying that Black Cleaver stacking is overpowered, just remember that armor pen & armor shred do NOTHING about health. If you have no armor to shred/pen, but have an extra 1000, or 2000, or 5000 hp, the extra 200 AD from 4 Black Cleavers isn't going to scratch you. Okay, it'll scratch you, but in the mean time you can demolish the guy who only has 800 - 1000 extra hp and no armor or magic resistance. Because Liandry's is powerful on Amumu/Malphite/Rammus/Galio/etc.

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