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-   -   [Poll] Tribunal Case Review Punish/Pardon/Skip Data collection (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2884206)

Ĺbysmal 12-09-2012 09:23 AM

[Poll] Tribunal Case Review Punish/Pardon/Skip Data collection
 
So me and a couple friends are debating a tribunal case that I had voted incorrectly which has sent me on a quest to gather data. So if you could please take a bit of your time to check out this case that would be great, thanks! I'm going to go into a little bit of a breakdown to explain why each of us voted the way we did.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/5917111/

1 Pardon: For the pardon vote we are going to look at instances in which why this was a pardon over a punish. There is 1 instance of toxic behavior here to look at. It occurs early on in the game. The player is frustrated at the lux for being a mid or feed troll but has picked a top laner to accommodate him. When stating he has finished an email in time Varus then baits him out into saying why and he states so.

Singed [00:00:13] finished email just in time
Varus [00:00:31] for what
Singed [00:00:36] reporting this lux
Amumu [00:00:37] stack incase of invade
Varus [00:00:45] why
Singed [00:00:51] ignores pick order
Singed [00:00:52] and instalocks
Singed [00:00:55] threatening mid or feed
Singed [00:01:02] sent riot the screenshot

Varus [00:01:09] he got what he want and its all cool man
Singed [00:01:12] no
Singed [00:01:14] I wanted mid
Singed [00:01:17] i was a pick before him
Singed [00:01:24] that is breaking summoners code


States he has finished his email just in time for the game, at which point varus is asking for what. The mistake here is then going into detail about the email sent to riot reporting this lux player for threatening mid or feed in the lobby when he shouldn't of spoken at all. The reason for the pardon verdict is this is by opinion the most extreme instance of toxicity in the game which wasn't worth a punish vote. The player goes on with the game showing some small hints of frustration asking the enemy team to report the lux player.

Punish vote: The punish vote was additionally based on what has been stated above and was deemed punish worthy. Throughout the game it was felt there was a volume of text that was unrelated to the game that was negative attitude. (Included Below)

Lux [00:02:09] u dont help amumu?
Lux [00:03:12] big surprise
Singed [00:03:22] i got ganked?
Singed [00:03:33] should i prepare the harassment email now?
Singed [00:05:04] come top
Singed [00:05:04] asap
Singed [00:05:06] shyv camping
Singed [00:06:11] mummy?
Amumu [00:06:17] singed?
Singed [00:06:20] gank

After looking into this part what we can gather from the data is that singed has died and lux then states big surprise harassing the player at which point he is threatens her with another email being sent to riot over harassment claims at which point the lux remains quiet for the remainder of the game. The pardon party felt it wasn't toxic and was a situation of defense while the punish party felt it wasn't relevant to the game and shouldn't have been said. In addition to this the amumu begins to gang up on the singed over a leash early game stating he refuses to go help that lane.


Just before that there is a minor instance

Lux [All] [00:07:25] WTF
Orianna[All] [00:07:29] ur bad
Singed [All] [00:08:05] just report lux after game for negative attitude
Singed [All] [00:08:08] and trolling

Orianna and lux don't like each other as we can see and singed looks to gain the oriannas support. In the pardon vote this just wasn't enough of a factor and in the punish vote this was one of the minor incidents leading to the punish decision. On to the main event.

Amumu [00:08:27] get over it singed, you're the one who is causing the problems right now
Amumu [00:08:30] didnt help leash
Amumu [00:08:32] dick move imo
Singed [00:08:46] i asked
Singed [00:08:48] you for a gank
Singed [00:08:52] thats a problem"
Singed [00:08:53] ?

Amumu [00:08:54] no gank cuz no leash
Singed [00:09:01] it was too late
Amumu [00:09:02] put me behind
Singed [00:09:04] i miss lane xp
Singed [00:09:07] you didn't get behind
Singed [00:09:11] you had cloth+5
Singed [00:09:24] reporting you for refusing to gank in chat

Amumu [00:09:29] and btw i ganked bot and mid
Singed [00:09:29] just provided the evidence yourself
Amumu [00:09:35] reporting you
Amumu [00:09:37] for being a *****
Singed [00:09:39] k

Now let us look at what happens here. Amumu states that singed is the one causing problems. (due to an early game leashing issue) From what I can tell singed was unable to leash and amumu started cloth 5 and didn't ask for singed's help so he assumed he would be fine. By the time singed could have leashed it is stated that it was too late and he would miss lane XP. The amumu is targeting singed now and they begin an argument with singed defending himself and near the end amumu starts to verbally harass the singed. In this situation both the pardon and punish voters decided this did not reflect their vote because A) It is game relevant and B) Amumu is an antagonist here and even then doesn't get much from singed who states he is adding the amumu to his report list for refusing to gank top.

Lux [00:12:50] hm..
Orianna [All] [00:13:15] so i thought u were a pro lux
Lux [00:13:21] need to teamfight
Lux [All] [00:13:37] you guys are doing great
Kayle [All] [00:13:53] aww ty

You can further see that the Lux and Orianna have had a dispute in the past over mid lane which helps build singes case that he was in fact trolling champ select, so this was a big deciding factor in the pardon vote. The punish vote doesn't care about this situation.

Singed [All] [00:13:58] i got an amumu who refuses to come top, proof in chat logs
Singed [All] [00:14:04] and a lux who takes mid from me
Singed [All] [00:14:05] sad dya

Amumu [All] [00:14:12] i have a top
Amumu [All] [00:14:17] who nonstop *****es
Amumu [All] [00:14:27] not gonna help a baby
Singed [All] [00:15:04] non stop *****es?
Singed [All] [00:15:10] when exactly has that occured


Singed begins to express his frustration for this game and amumu then again goes after singed since he states amumu refuses to gank top. Singed then asks about what *****ing and at that point we can decide the *****ing he is talking about is the email information and him asking for a gank. To the pardon and punish voters this wasn't relevant in their decisions.

Singed [All] [00:15:26] i said
Singed [All] [00:15:29] "amumu plz gank top
Singed [All] [00:15:30] "

Lux [00:15:37] nj
Singed [All] [00:15:39] then you stated you refused to
Singed [All] [00:15:44] because I didn't trade xp/gold

Amumu [All] [00:15:45] nope
Singed [All] [00:15:46] to help you leash
Singed [All] [00:15:50] when you had cloth 5
Singed [All] [00:15:53] its all the chat logs


This happens immediately after the above situation and again it was felt to be non-relevant.
Singed simply stating his reasoning for not leashing at which point amumu continues to be a problem.

Varus [00:16:19] lets face it singed
Kayle [All] [00:16:20] hes just a mummy doing his best to win
Amumu [All] [00:16:20] i said no help leash, no gank top
Varus [00:16:23] no one cares
Varus [00:16:29] and ur terrible

Singed doesn't say anything in retaliation here but you can see Varus join in with amumu and Lux.

Amumu [All] [00:16:30] doesnt mean i wouldnt, means i couldnt
Singed [All] [00:16:39] no
Singed [All] [00:16:41] it doesn't

Amumu [All] [00:16:50] up for interpretation
Singed [All] [00:16:53] "no gank top"
Singed [All] [00:16:54] means
Singed [All] [00:16:55] wouldn't

Amumu [All] [00:16:59] means i cant
Singed [All] [00:17:06] i've watched you
Singed [All] [00:17:09] have the oppurtunity

Amumu [All] [00:17:18] no, bot and mid had opportunities
Amumu [All] [00:17:23] none up top
Singed [All] [00:17:27] you can say w/e you like
Singed [All] [00:17:31] ill let tribunal decide


In this section amumu begins to defend himself explaining why he hasn't ganked top at all and singed states that it isn't because he can't it is because he won't while singed feels there have been opportunities but amumu decided not to take them. The pardon voter feels this isn't relevant enough to mean a punish vote. The punish vote feels this is negative attitude and consists of the minor incidents that lead to the punish vote.

Amumu [00:17:59] do me a favor and counter report for me guys
Amumu [00:18:10] saying i did nothing wrong and this guy is just being a ******
Singed [All] [00:18:16] im being camped
Singed [All] [00:18:18] by shyv
Singed [All] [00:18:19] i asked for help
Singed [All] [00:18:22] and you refused
Singed [All] [00:18:24] im the ******?


Amumu asks for "counter reports" at this point the pardon voter is sold on a pardon because amumu continues to call singed names and is now asking his team to report himself and say that singed was a "******" and he doesn't deserve a ban because he did nothing wrong. The punish voter decides it is not relevant. Singed asks Amumu why he was called a ****** for asking him for help.

Shyvana [All] [00:18:25] camped
Shyvana [All] [00:18:29] u dont ward
Singed [All] [00:18:33] i've warded
Singed [All] [00:18:34] 3 times

Shyv states she did in fact camp top because singed didn't ward, he argues he did ward 3 times. Both voters decide it is not relevant.

Varus [All] [00:20:41] report singed
Singed [All] [00:21:06] again i ask
Singed [All] [00:21:08] explain your reasoning

Varus [All] [00:21:12] becuz
Amumu [All] [00:21:16] you're whining *****
Varus [All] [00:21:20] u have the worst attitude
Varus [All] [00:21:22] of all time
Varus [All] [00:21:26] in lol history

Now we can tell that both amumu and varus are reporting singed and they begin to verbally harass him. Punish voter feels this isn't relevant while the pardon voter feels this continues to build his case.

Singed [All] [00:21:27] now you are calling me a *****
Amumu [All] [00:21:28] same thing
Singed [All] [00:21:29] and in insulting
Singed [All] [00:21:43] still don't understand

Orianna [All] [00:21:45] im just laughing at lux
Singed [All] [00:21:49] how asking for a gank
Orianna [All] [00:21:50] he thought he was like the best
Singed [All] [00:21:52] is a bad attitude

Singed responds with this defense, the pardon vote feels this is not relevant while the punish voter feels that this is not game relevant and isn't needed. Orianna continues her assualt on Lux because of past history.


Amumu [All] [00:23:57] that exhaust:P
Lux [00:24:07] good fight
Lux [00:24:15] i guess
Orianna [All] [00:24:17] can u guys ff now
Orianna [All] [00:24:19] i want my elo
Amumu [All] [00:24:30] will you report singed?
Orianna [All] [00:24:40] idk but ill report lux


The next 3 minutes nothing is said from singed and Orianna says she will report lux, probably due to past history.

Singed [All] [00:24:58] gg
Varus [00:24:58] just ff and report this singed
Varus [All] [00:25:00] GG
Singed [All] [00:25:01] report lux/amumu
Singed [All] [00:25:02] thx

Varus [All] [00:25:03] report singed
Kayle [All] [00:25:03] gg
Graves [All] [00:25:04] gg
Orianna [All] [00:25:04] gg
Amumu [All] [00:25:06] report singed
Lux [All] [00:25:07] w/e

Singed says GG and asks the enemy team to report the Lux player. At this point the game is over and neither party decides this is relevant.


So me and my friends had votes that looked like this

1 Pardon
1 Punish
2 Skip

Both people who voted skip felt there wasn't enough relevant information to make a judgement call here due to there only being one case. What I am looking to find with the poll is how many people would have skipped and then how many would have voted pardon or punish. The reason being if there is a 50% skip rate the idea here is should that hold any value?

Please take your time on the case and then include your vote and explain your reasoning behind your vote! Thanks for your time.

Aloretec 12-09-2012 09:41 AM

Punish. Singed is trying to troll without looking like he's trolling. I'm sure if you saw the pregame chat log it started there. He really had no reason to state he had written an e-mail and no basis for reporting to begin with.(Edit-at the time of writing e-mail)

Since he states he had higher pick, wanted mid, and picked Singed I'm assuming he planned on going mid as Singed. Which to me is a troll pick. I don't know a match up he'll win mid lane. If Lux then picked Lux after him and he gave up mid. That was his choice.

Singed is passive aggressive through out the chat. He's doing everything to blame his team for the loss without coming out and saying gg noob jungler and mid. This is actually worse harassment then that because when Lux and Amu say something back they look like the bad guys.

This guy got a permaban. Meaning he's all ready been through the system several times. He's simply been looking for ways to beat it rather then improve his behavior.

Ĺbysmal 12-09-2012 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EraserxRain (Hozzászólás 32250056)
Punish. Singed is trying to troll without looking like he's trolling. I'm sure if you saw the pregame chat log it started there. He really had no reason to state he had written an e-mail and no basis for reporting to begin with.(Edit-at the time of writing e-mail)

Since he states he had higher pick, wanted mid, and picked Singed I'm assuming he planned on going mid as Singed. Which to me is a troll pick. I don't know a match up he'll win mid lane. If Lux then picked Lux after him and he gave up mid. That was his choice.

Singed is passive aggressive through out the chat. He's doing everything to blame his team for the loss without coming out and saying gg noob jungler and mid. This is actually worse harassment then that because when Lux and Amu say something back they look like the bad guys.

This guy got a permaban. Meaning he's all ready been through the system several times. He's simply been looking for ways to beat it rather then improve his behavior.


My argument for that is there just wasn't enough information here and is made of mostly assumptions. He does state he wanted mid but he also picks singed, stating she said mid or feed. This is why I voted skip. Also is the permaban relevant information? Had you not known the type of ban would it change your opinion. These are the kind of answers I seek.

True Bandito 12-09-2012 09:46 AM

Singed [00:09:24] reporting you for refusing to gank in chat


Punish just for this. Is Singed a 12 year old kid?

Maybe he is just a clever troll. Either way, he is a negative influence and I don't want to play with him.

Aloretec 12-09-2012 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PwNstorM (Hozzászólás 32250134)
My argument for that is there just wasn't enough information here and is made of mostly assumptions. He does state he wanted mid but he also picks singed, stating she said mid or feed. This is why I voted skip.

I'm not saying Lux shouldn't have been reported, but Singed started as soon as the game loaded and continued to harass through out the game. Again he's simply being passive aggressive

True Bandito 12-09-2012 09:48 AM

Quote:

Also is the permaban relevant information? Had you not known the type of ban would it change your opinion.
If he had been warned multiple times before and was suspended or temporarily banned yet still did this **** then permaban is just.

Ĺbysmal 12-09-2012 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EraserxRain (Hozzászólás 32250209)
I'm not saying Lux shouldn't have been reported, but Singed started as soon as the game loaded and continued to harass through out the game. Again he's simply being passive aggressive


I do see that he started out with it, but in just about all instances he is either asked or provoked. I see a frustrated player here rather than a troll.

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Bandito (Hozzászólás 32250249)
If he had been warned multiple times before and was suspended or temporarily banned yet still did this **** then permaban is just.

This isn't provided in the tribunal for a reason so I saw it as irrelevant information.

Aloretec 12-09-2012 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Bandito (Hozzászólás 32250185)
Singed [00:09:24] reporting you for refusing to gank in chat


Punish just for this. Is Singed a 12 year old kid?

Maybe he is just a clever troll. Either way, he is a negative influence and I don't want to play with him.

That's the important part. In looking at this chat log. Is this someone you'd want in your game? The answer is no. Tribunal and Code working as intended.

True Bandito 12-09-2012 09:51 AM

Quote:

I do see that he started out with it, but in just about all instances he is either asked or provoked. I see a frustrated player here rather than a troll.
It has been established by Rioters AGAIN and AGAIN that two wrongs do not make a right. If I can stop my hand from typing back some smack talk then so can he. If he can't then perhaps LoL is not for him.

Ĺbysmal 12-09-2012 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by True Bandito (Hozzászólás 32250319)
It has been established by Rioters AGAIN and AGAIN that two wrongs do not make a right.


This is why I voted skip, with the information that would have been provided by tribunal is there an instance where he is harassing another player. There being only one case in which anything occurs which isn't even that bad. I just didn't see enough information here. Is defending yourself in a non-harassment way a wrong? If so is the solution really just not to say anything at all. I don't think that is the type of environment we want to play in.


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