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League of Legends Community (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/index.php)
-   Tribunal Ban Inquiries (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=41)
-   -   A serious review of bans (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2883041)

BlazzedTroll 12-08-2012 10:50 PM

A serious review of bans
 
Hello all,

I am a troll... I do like to get under peoples skin. I do enjoy making people get angry.
I must point out though... I choose my prey. I choose them wisely.
If the tribunal thinks so highly of themselves as to get on their and ban someone after a review of 5 cases at most where all they can examine is a simple log of the chat and not a single action then well... that is Riot's fault and not theirs.

Stop coming on here and saying OMG tribunal why did you do this to me. Clearly I was upset and I should be allowed to rage at this person. That is so far from useful.

Actions Speak Louder Than Words
A rule taught to us since childhood. Actions are what tell others who you really are. Not your words. However, the Tribunal does not have a video of your actions. All they have is what you said. This is all that they will judge you on.

A Look At My "Character"
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/6021827/

Go ahead and review that case. Take it upon yourself to judge me as the tribunal did. Judge me as you would judge another through the tribunal. I have done the same.
The problem is, I would have voted to ban this "player". I know that when I come across someone in the Tribunal that is acting the way I have I always select ban. Why? Because their is no way to tell if someone is over reacting... or if someone is an obnoxious *******. I would much rather ban all of these people and have a few innocents get banned as well then let obnoxious *******s go un-punished.

This is why I have posted.
Perma-Bans
Why are these happening to people? And how are these happening?
I have been banned 3 times now. Once was over use of the report system (I literally reported like 100 people "Unskilled" in a series of ranked games because they failed to play the game as intended aka. pushing lanes and getting kills as a bonus. They were getting kills and then pushing when they got bored.) I was banned for offensive language (as you can see I like to say ****. ****. damn. ass. ******. goddamn noob. mother ****er lrn2play and much more). Most recently, I am not sure why I was banned but I know that I would choose to ban this person.
I don't mind being banned. 2 days, 5 days, 10 days, w\e. I have a life. I can find something to do for the time being. However, the moment I get perma-banned from a game I have put money and waaaayyyyy toooooo much time into... I will really flip a ****. I guess you could call this a precautionary post.

I see that the Tribunal is a "broken" system but it works for all intensive purposes. When people have gotten overheated as I have with this game. It is time they take a break and come back more relaxed and then work back up to the intense state I was in. There are so many people that refuse to play this game properly that expecting people to play calmly 24/7 is completely insane. This is when the banhammer fixes things. But when we start perma-banning players such as myself who take a great deal of pleasure in this game and actually understand the concepts, take a positive role in helping new players (yes on my smurf account I help new players by getting the obnoxious *******s to chill out and realize at level5 feeding is fine... it doesn't matter and I explain to the newbies how items work and the different classes of champions), I am actively engaged in the forums, I "donate" money to get new skins all the time; then we have a problem.

I have seen so many threads where people rage over a perma ban, and for good reason. I don't want to let myself get there. But I can't come on here and say with a straight face that the next time I start a ranked match, and some kid refuses to play support and then says "OK well I'll just feed", that I won't flip a **** on him and give him every insult I have. These are the real toxic players. Is it really "toxic" to rage on someone? NO. Hell NO!. HELL NO!. What is toxic? When players do not play the game right... Why do players like me "troll" and "rage" in the first place. It's not because someone wasn't good for one game (I loose games gracefully when I get outplayed, I don't when someone on my team refuses to put up the good fight and tries to surrender immediately after going 0/6/0/10 in lane and never once trying to defend under turret). Banning players that overreact isn't going to solve the problem.

AT LEVEL 30
-Players should not be playing like I have seen people play.
-Players should know that when loosing a lane, the best course of action is to play defensively and stay near or under your turret until you and your opponents CS outways the kill or two they have gotten
-Players should never refuse to call mia. (For godsake this is in the Summoners Code I am tired of someone saying watch the map. Yes good players watch the map. But when I am in an intense fight and you are just farming CS... ****ing send a mia. Ping the Goddamn map.)
-Players should not be running out mid field at 45 min in when the other team is working on Baron, scream "OMG they are getting BARON run and stop them with me" "1 by 1 lets run at their full team in combat mode"
-Players should not be leaving the base to go look for a fight at 55min when inhibitors are popped and super minions are pushing the base
-Players should not be calling other players noobs after a single death.
-Players (unless on a 5v5 team) should not be queuing to play only a single role
^^^ These are players that should be banned. Not the ones freaking about them playing like this. After all... this is META this is how all MOBA games have been played since ****ing DOTA. I played DOTA HoN DotA2 DotA Allstars... name it.. I played it (Not Smite? wtf is that?) Players that level to 30 and haven't figured it out need to start again at level 1 and figure it out. Players that get to level 30 and rage over players that haven't figured it out are good with a "time out"

TL:DR (Yea holy **** I had a lot to say I guess)
Stop perma-banning people who over-react and start perma-banning accounts that haven't figured out how to play yet. Ragefaces are going to just make another account, level it.. and act the same. Noobs are going to make another account, and maybe learn how to play the second, third, idk maybe fourth time through.

AeroWaffle 12-08-2012 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlazzedTroll (Hozzászólás 32238993)
Hello all,

I am a troll... I do like to get under peoples skin. I do enjoy making people get angry.
...
But when we start perma-banning players such as myself who take a great deal of pleasure in this game
...

So, you enjoy to make other people angry, and yet believe that you shouldn't get banned because you still take pleasure in the game.

No.

From a moral perspective, verbal abuse deserves to be punished because you're being an unnecessary jerk to your teammates in a game.

From a business perspective, verbal abuse deserves to be punished because you are making the game less enjoyable for many people, making them less likely to spend money on the game.

This is not a professional tournament for money, you cannot punish people (verbally or gametime ban) for playing poorly.

Even in ranked, there is no real material reward for having a high elo, so it is still unprofessional play.

If you want to ensure that your teammates play to your skill level requirements, create a ranked team.

BlazzedTroll 12-08-2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroWaffle (Hozzászólás 32239566)
So,

Yes, in my free time I troll people. I do not troll literally every game. Maybe that wasn't the best opener for a post. Because of course Moral Police is the first to post.

But like I said. I was "trolling" because the player wasn't even playing right. Why am I going to let someone at level 30 refuse to play the game right.

Did you look at the first match of that Tribunal post.

Blitzcrank. "I have a shield"
He let ezreal hit him 7 times before the minions even got into lane. Literally stooooood still and took each of his skillshots. Never once tried to dodge? Is this toxic behavior? Yes. Is this recorded in the Tribunal? No.

I said in that post. I was not arguing my ban. Do not sit here and ***** at me because I was yelling at some player. I did not say once I shouldn't have been banned. I said I would have banned myself. What I said was the problem is this new permaban wave sensation Riot has gotten onto. I think they need to be permabanning people who feeeeeed like crazy. People who get reported unskilled and refusing to communicate. Not people who get reported for "Verbal Abuse". Verbal Abuse will start right back up again on their "smurf" account in which they have no investment. Refusing to Communicate and Unskilled might actually be solved if a player is forced to relevel an account knowing they got banned because the refused to communicate and play correctly.

Great Pyrenees 12-08-2012 11:20 PM

So you admit your wrong ... but you want the rules changed so all bans are for time and no permabans? You know I am not so opposed to this with one stipulation. The second you get a report upon returning from a ban it puts you back on a 3 day ban. How does that sound? Unlimited 3 day bans for a single report? Because Riot wants to make money off of their free game when when 1.12% of the population ruins it for the others it hits them in the wallet. I mean it is there game we have to consider their profits too dont we =)

Dyzra 12-08-2012 11:37 PM

1.12% of the population. Have you actually seen the reports and did research or just going off what Riot says. Because any compnay can make up stats and tell people that is what the numbers are without showing and proof. So according to those numbers 32 million accounts so 320,000 accounts are toxic thats quite a bit. But the problem is when you perma ban someone they come back on a smurf account and do not care anymore raging every game ruining it for the new player base. So is it better to perma ban and lose money and new customers or just keep bans going over and over again.

RockLobster88 12-08-2012 11:44 PM

I actually took the time to read the post. While I, nor anyone else here, do not condone your troll behavior (and you don't seem to expect it), you are one of the few people who seem to understand the reasons you get banned. You seem logical, tactful, and levelheaded. You know that if you were on the outside looking in, you would also ban for your actions. That takes a great amount of humility rarely seen by the offenders here in the Tribunal forums. Again, your troll actions, while not always there, are a problem, but you do know their place and don't partake in them every game.

Riot has said that permabans are a bad solution to a worse problem. However, the fear of getting permabanned in itself can act as a deterrent against further toxic behavior; those who ignore the warning signs will lose their account, and with it, all the time and money spent into it. While I wish there was a better solution than permabans, I honestly don't see any other way to go. This is a problem Lyte has said they are trying to resolve.

AeroWaffle 12-08-2012 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzra (Hozzászólás 32240401)
1.12% of the population. Have you actually seen the reports and did research or just going off what Riot says. Because any compnay can make up stats and tell people that is what the numbers are without showing and proof. So according to those numbers 32 million accounts so 320,000 accounts are toxic thats quite a bit. But the problem is when you perma ban someone they come back on a smurf account and do not care anymore raging every game ruining it for the new player base. So is it better to perma ban and lose money and new customers or just keep bans going over and over again.

By that logic, people are going to create smurf accounts on temp bans too (and then not care if they get banned on that account).

A person doesn't always create a new account when they get perma-banned, and if they do, they don't always rage every game (if they do, they just get banned again).

And it wouldn't be much fun leveling a account to level 30 after every ban, even the most dedicated of trolls give up after getting banned so many times.

And if you don't trust the numbers that Riot gives us, then how will you trust anything the company tells you unless it corresponds with your own opinion?

Great Pyrenees 12-08-2012 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzra (Hozzászólás 32240401)
1.12% of the population. Have you actually seen the reports and did research or just going off what Riot says. Because any compnay can make up stats and tell people that is what the numbers are without showing and proof. So according to those numbers 32 million accounts so 320,000 accounts are toxic thats quite a bit. But the problem is when you perma ban someone they come back on a smurf account and do not care anymore raging every game ruining it for the new player base. So is it better to perma ban and lose money and new customers or just keep bans going over and over again.

What do you want me to say? In order to play LoL you have to sign a EULA which states you will follow the summoners code. If you do not follow the summoners code you get 6 chances to reform. If you do not reform then you are perma banned. What part of that sounds unfair? It sounds fair to me, its a fun free game. Which is why WoW bans almost no one (Gold sellers) because they subscibe and Blizzard makes a ton off of those fees. Heck Riot WANTS more players. But part of that entails getting rid of the most toxic players. Even smufs get permabanned and Riot has the ability to ban all of a persons accounts if they become too much of a problem.

Great Pyrenees 12-08-2012 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroWaffle (Hozzászólás 32240740)
By that logic, people are going to create smurf accounts on temp bans too (and then not care if they get banned on that account).

A person doesn't always create a new account when they get perma-banned, and if they do, they don't always rage every game (if they do, they just get banned again).

And it wouldn't be much fun leveling a account to level 30 after every ban, even the most dedicated of trolls give up after getting banned so many times.

And if you don't trust the numbers that Riot gives us, then how will you trust anything the company tells you unless it corresponds with your own opinion?

? But i do trust what Riot tells me =) Riot loves us and wants us to be happy and makes us nice skins!

Dyzra 12-09-2012 12:03 AM

You are right I do not trust information Riot spews out because they never give facts to back it up. Same goes for you if you want to believe it then believe it does not change the fact that its what they said with no visible facts shown to back it up. You cannot compare WoW with LOL because there are teo different types off mmos. Yes they both require grouping to accomplish goals, but as I have played WoW never seen such a harsh community as LoL. There is just something about LoL that makes people rage. I believe it has to do with the skill of farming along with the snowballing effects of the game.

No one likes to listen to your team mate has been slain over and over in the first 15mins and see a 2-15 team score by 20 mins. If Riot actually cared about wanting more people they would do more actions helping the community instead of just spewing out more champions and trying to make more money. They do not care about the community and just want to make money hence the tribunal was put in place to save money for the company by auto banning without riot having to be involved.


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